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Question on Taking Photos in Public Spaces  (View post)

Moktoipas [PersonRank 1]

Monday, June 22, 2009
8 years ago4,660 views

It already exists and is called CCTV...

imma [PersonRank 3]

8 years ago #

Mine seem to do that, except they take video i believe :-(
In the case of pictures I mostly dislike that they keep them to themselves
Advance awareness of the event probably has a large effect on how it feels too

To me, the difference between the police doing this & a member of the public / corporation is that the police are supposed to act for the public good (protect & serve or similar) so I think making the pictures available would be debatable on that basis too (although arguably the law should encourage individuals & corporations to do the same)

David Mulder [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

Its kinda strange, as I wouldn't mind if they would do it once in awhile to have an overview of the area (e.g. once each quarter for each street), this could probably help quite well as well, but if they would be constantly doing this (like with camera's they are now adding to some of the bigger cities), then I would probably freak out till the point where I would get them into court.

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

We already have CCTV camera cars being piloted in the UK which take videos to catch potential offenders rather than photos:

<< New CCTV cars to catch drivers using their mobile phones or being otherwise distracted at the wheel are being piloted by Greater Manchester Police.

The small Smart cars, which have a 12ft (3.6m) mast with a camera attached, are parked at junctions to monitor traffic.

Mike Downes of the Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership said the scheme was successfully "driving the number of accidents down".

[...]

Anyone seen driving while distracted – eating at the wheel, playing with the radio or applying make-up for instance – is filmed by the cameras.

Later, a letter is sent to the owner of the car, in many cases along with a fine. >>

From: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/ma ...

They're in London, too, apparently.

Via: boingboing.net/2009/04/11/manc ...

ludaska [PersonRank 0]

8 years ago #

I would love to be a camera on every corner of every street that permanently record everything. I'm not afraid because i have nothing to hide, but criminals and those who does not obey the laws would be affected. Can someone point out a reason why law obeying citizens should be afraid ?

Jérôme Flipo [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

I rememeber having read a post here about two possible evolutions of our Orwellian society. We would be watched:
* either by an invisible but limited police force
* or by anyone who would ask for – the government and any citizen

Since I think we'll be increasingly tracked in the future, and that this trend is irreversible, I'd prefer to know how I'm watched.

Hence my request for publishing the material in the public domain.

Do you know which post I'm referring to?

David Mulder [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]ludaska: Because we never know for how long we will be law obeying and for how long those we live together will be law obeying. Take for example the netherlands, we have a guy here which kinda uses the same tactics (and a major flaw in democracy) as hitler to get to the power and is now in the top three parties for the EU... if it would be up to this guy he would probably want to kill off all imigrants, so that's why the government should always barely have enough control to keep a society stable, they shouldn't ever have enough control to actually change a society. (Even though for example with the racism in america it was a good thing in the end... but e.g. in the netherlands during WWII when the nl had listed with every person what his religion was it turned out quite bad...)

David Mulder [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]Jerome Flipo: Why would any trend be irreversible in the first place, it will only get irreversible if everyone believes it is irreversible.

Jérôme Flipo [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]Tony

I lived for a semester in Islington (London) where I couldn't spend a day without spotting a "CCTV Mobile Enforcement Vehicle" in my neighbors. They've very tiny cars, but they actually look really frightening when parked in the dark (flickr.com/photos/mbiddulph/30 ... flickr.com/photos/criminalinte ...).

Bob Jones [PersonRank 2]

8 years ago #

We have that here, in the UK, in my area. When there were disruptive youths on the street, the Police would send around a police van with a name like "Video Collection Unit" or something. That was 2 years ago, and I'm not in city but a rural town.

Jérôme Flipo [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]David Mulder

Because we're addicted to information.
I'm not saying we should stop fighting for privacy. I've noticed that someone's concerns cannot compare with the masses' need for free information.

I think it's the kind of argument Google uses to promote Street View. Their product may cause grave concerns to you, but the small benefits it brings to millions is much bigger. That's why we'll see more and more anecdotes about Google SV helping in unexpected ways.

Phil [PersonRank 0]

8 years ago #

I would not be happy with the police doing it. I have no problem with google doing it for the creation/update of a map like once every year or two but the police having an always running camera system on a car roof or cameras on every street corner would be unacceptable.

We are sliding deeper and deeper into a police state mentality as it is..

schultzter [PersonRank 1]

8 years ago #

In Canada (and the USA and I imagine most other western democracies) you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. So the idea of the cops aiming a camera at my house in-case I do something wrong is bit like presuming my guilt and just waiting to catch me.

I admit cameras makes a lot of sense in where there's large gatherings of people and a camera gives the police a vantage point, capability, and safety they wouldn't otherwise have.

It also makes sense in public areas where there is a history of criminal activity and that is difficult to effectively patrol.

But the notion of police gathering photos/video and then data-mining it is just wrong. A criminal investigation needs to start with a complaint about wrong-doing.

MSull [PersonRank 0]

8 years ago #

What does privacy have to do with a public place? If I can look outside my window and see you doing it, how can you say it shouldn't be filmed? By the same token it wouldn't be ok for me to take pictures of my kids in my lawn, or at a park, because I was photographing a public area, and would be infringing upon anyone or any house in the background.

I guess systematic video recording and photography enables you to be tracked to your every location quite easily. However, it's already legal for a private detective to photograph your every move anyway. I think a lot of discretion is important when considering the applications of such a system, but, people should realize that tracking and public photography is generally universally legal already.

Jones [PersonRank 0]

8 years ago #

I think maybe the biggest downside to constant photos of public locations would be that if an individual decided to use it for his personal desires then the information would already be available to him. It would be a lot harder for some law breaking law officer to go and take photos of everything on his own.

And we all know that if we create roles in society with higher levels of power, there will be dishonest humans who will strive to get into those positions.

Ben Allen [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

I'm not down with that. There's no chance for rebellion or exploration. Say, you snuck outside to go to a party in your teens. Your parents find out you're not around and they call the cops. The cops effectively already know where you are and instantly fine you/brand your name. The rest of the people at the party would get fined as well. This seems as if it would do more damage to the public than help the police force keep our society safe.

Peter Stinson [PersonRank 1]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]JérômeFlipo,

I think you're on to something. Go ahead, but put the feeds up for all to see, just like the Virginia Department of Transportation does with the traffic feeds; put it all in the hands of the people.

z [PersonRank 1]

8 years ago #

I do not think it is a good idea. While people should not expect complete privacy in a public place, I don't think we should be collecting and aggregating information like this, even if we start out with good intentions. It would be too easy to abuse, and provide little benefit.

imma [PersonRank 3]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]ludaska
> Can someone point out a reason why law obeying citizens should be afraid ?

You trust the government to not abuse such powers without *lots* of independent oversight and transparency? How adorably naive of you ;-)

We cannot easily stop the trend of increased tracking but we can (& are) making it more open and transparent – with so many people carrying photo-capable(or more) mobile phones and the rise of online public communication, governments & police are becoming more likely to be held accountable :-)

Vassil Hristov [PersonRank 1]

8 years ago #

[put at-character here]ludaska

Did you manage to miss all history lessons at school? Seriously....

Andy Wong [PersonRank 10]

8 years ago #

CCTV and on-board camera of police car have been around for years.

Wei Wuwei [PersonRank 0]

8 years ago #

Anybody can take pictures or video in any public area, of anything and anybody. Society must abandon any claims of privacy when it steps from areas of privacy into the larger public space. Rights to photograph and video public spaces should be extended to everyone, including law enforcement.

This thread is locked as it's old... but you can create a new thread in the forum. 

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