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The Prejudice Map  (View post)

dpneal [PersonRank 10]

Wednesday, January 11, 2006
14 years ago

is the UK known for being extremely unclean? i've never heard of that.

a very interesting map.

bernis [PersonRank 2]

14 years ago #

nice ... how about adding more countries? maybe as google maps element with littel pointer for each country wich would open a bubble with description?

Michael [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

this also seems to reflect your (prejudiced?) selection of which of the top results to include in the map. not really sure what you're trying to reflect here, other than what text the top search results contain.

Mikkel [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

What does people think of the danes?

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Mikkel, enter the following into Google, then check the result snippets:
"danes are known for *"

google.com/search?q=%22danes+a ...

mark [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Most of those comments appear to refer to Great Danes (the dogs) rather than the Great Danes (the people).

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Then this search might be better:
"danes are known for *" -great-danes

google.com/search?q=%22danes+a ...

G [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Have you seen googlism.com/ ? Might help.

Neha [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

"this also seems to reflect your (prejudiced?) selection of which of the top results to include in the map."

Aye aye! Tolerance, patience, superstition, and intelligence appear before 'cheating' with regard to Indians, thankyouverymuch.

bob [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

usa = anti-muslim politics, huh? no palestine = suicide bombers, no iran = jew hatred & medieval repression of women, huh?

Brian [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Left out New Zealand... but that's OK.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Neha, Bob, Michael and Brian: Yes, I left out many countries, the selection is in no way scientific. Yes, I left out many prejudices. No, the prejudice selection was in no way scientific, it was random, and it is in no way representative of the majority of prejudices voiced on the web.

> Tolerance, patience, superstition, and intelligence
> appear before 'cheating' with regard to
> Indians, thankyouverymuch.

Neha, you don't know what I searched for. In the case of India it was
"indians are known for *" india -native-indians
The first result is "cheating". In any case, I didn't always pick the first result, I just picked random results as well... again, it is in no way scientific, representative, etc. Now don't kill the messenger.

Matthew [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

New Zealanders are known for accepting people forgetting them.

Tijd [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I'm from Belgium, known for it's:
food (chocolates, wafles, fries)
drinks (beer)
strength
multi-lingual capacities
compromise and negotiations

Michael S. [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Did you search for "turkish are known for" or "turks are known for"? "Turks" gives two moustache hits right up, which are a nice addition.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Michael S., I searched for "turkish."
"Turks" might have been more correct, not sure...

Tomanbay [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

[joining the hords of whinners]...y didn't u include Egypt?
anyways...i helpt you out...
tomanbay.blogspot.com/2006/01/ ...
maybe more people should do it, then u can aggregate it all into one big map

Drew Makepeace [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Philipp,

An excellent and very original idea for a map!

Can I make some suggestions? 1)Rename it 'stereotype' map. "Prejudice" implies that the perceived trait is erroneous or unreasonable, whereas a stereotype may or may not be true. 2) Remove comments that go without saying like "Canadians like their beer". (I doubt any nationality hates its beer – if it did then they wouldn't bother making it). 3) Redo the map stating details of your method & search terms.

I look forward to an even more interesting map!

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Thanks Drew. I will incorporate some of the suggestions made if I create a new map. "Stereotype" might have been more fitting, but I try not to rename the map at this point.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Thanks Drew. I will incorporate some of the suggestions made if I create a new map. "Stereotype" might have been more fitting, but I try not to rename the map at this point.

DK [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Nothing about Korea?

Mysteriously 'known for anti-Muslim politics' [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I like the name 'prejudice' because it encourages us not to take a silly thing too seriously.

rad_thundercat [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

the 1st result for "lesbians are known for*" is pretty funny

["Lesbians are known for _not_ having sex." --Dr. Pepper Schwartz, author of "American
Couples"]

Amski [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Philipp,

What did you use for the UK? I can't replicate the results.

Adam

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Amski, I think it was
"british people are known for *"

Relixx [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

As I South African I immediately looked at South Africa on the map. "aggressive"? us? So, I did the google search and saw that "aggressive" apparently refers to the rugby :D

...Pity there werent any results for "South Africa are known for being /good/ at rugby" ;(

Jeff [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

It gets interesting when you try things like:

"christians are known for *"
"jews are known for *"
"muslims are known for *"
"hindus are known for *"
"buhddists are known for *"

Justin Pfister [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Late-Congrats for this being covered on the the DailySearch Cast by Danny. It seems you did this manually. It would be nice to have a dynamic driven one with the API but I imagine it wouldn't be really easy and far from perfect.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I tried something similar a long time ago, and as it didn't work, I didn't continue in that direction. For example, automated you would get a lot of results like "germans are known for liking free" (free what? the noun would be missing) or "italians are known for liking <19012092092121112120910>" and stuff. But after seeing the relation browser recently blogoscoped.com/archive/2006-0 ... I was reminded how cool the concept of "glue phrases" or what you might call it really is. There's so much information you can connect:

"in X the average temperature is Y"
"X was born in Y"
"X was the father of Y"
"X is married to Y"
"X prefers to eat Y"

And then you can connect the connections.
Let's say "X was born in GENEVA"
plus "Y was born in GENEVA"
result
"X was born in the same city as Y"

You could dedude a whole lot of common facts using this approach. Google has the Q&A feature, e.g. if you enter [where was albert einstein born], I'm not sure how they're doing it but in its core it might have something to do with this... let an AI loose on the web and allow it to learn this way, and you might end up with an extra-intelligent being which can generate new facts not written down anywhere before!
blogoscoped.com/archive/2004_1 ...

lionel [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

The map is wrongwrongwrong.

Your results for Malaysia is not what I got, and I figured out that you used "Malays" (ethnicity) when you should be using "Malaysians" (nationality).

Okay, wrong in one tiny corner.

lionel.weblogs.us/2006/01/13/a ...

Andrea [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Hello,
nice idea even though I'm not convinced of your rigorousness in applying it.
May I suggest another "bias" factor you're not recognizing? (probably by being an anglocentric monoglott).
You're only actually showing prejudices shown by the english-speaking internet community... that leaves out a few billions people's prejudices.

So, if I ran this in french on the Brits, I get:
-pudding
-originality
- rigorousness
- anti-semitism (!!!!)
- legendary calmness

Quite different, aint'it?

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

You're absolutey right Andrea :)
If I were to do this very correctly, I think I were to use the "Googleshare algorithm" as well. That means for every attribute there is in the world, I were to run the comparison in Google to check the page count for that phrase.

Francois Jordaan [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I think Philipp Lenssen reveals some pretty strong prejudices of his own about South Africans! His no.1 term, "aggressiveness" (in a sports context) is only the 14th result, ignoring 3 references to "friendliness" further up.
google.com/search?q=%22South+A ...

You should put image-mapped links on your map so people can more easily see for themselves (where your prejudices lie).

Luca [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Article on online-newspaper (uh , what a contraddiction!)"il Giornale" about the prejudice Map

ilgiornale.it/a.pic1?ID=58520

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Francois, you obviously seem to get different results on Google than I do, judging from what you describe you see. That happens. That being said, the picks were random, except for words that appeared over and over for every country (that includes "hospitality", which would have been in about 1/3 of all bubbles, making more for a "global stereotype" than a country-specific one – give it a try yourself and you'll see).

Claudio [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

In reply to dpneal: I confirm that lack of cleanliness is part of the stereotypes about the UK, at least in Italy. I also confirm that usually one's the last to know about stereotypes on his country: The first time I heard a joke about Italian war heroes was at 27, during a stay in a youth hostel in Rennes (France), from an American.
Mikkel: back home (in Italy: I have been living in the UK for five years and I am now moving to the US), Danes are known as 'latin Nordic', i.e. more lively and chatty than the other Nordic nations.
At tinyurl.com/8zsyk (sorry for the TinyUrl, this blog blocks valid URLs with .TO TLD...) you will find a post about cliches used in the ads for a Jamie Oliver's tv program; the post is in Italian, but the letter sent to Channel4, in English, is mildly amusing.

CandleHouse [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

My comment is about the Turkish part:

Hospitality and Using Guns.

Perhaps some of you dont understand what it means. It is easy, you will be 'hospitalitiez' either way with or without it! hehe

Dino [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

When I search on the German webpages for the German equivalent of the phrase "Turks are known for", I get 5 results which I feel obliged to share with you:

1-) Car racing on the roads (claimed in an Austrian forum about a car accident news.)
2-) Self-appraisal and exaggeration.
3-) Social-ethnically high motivations.
4-) Intolerance

Hmmm, open to comments.
But the low appearance number of the equivalent phrase on German webpages is rather strange. I would have doubted this before.

Though, the "prejudice" with the hospitality + affection for weapons would prove true easily.

Bernard [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

The same can be done with cities. I've picked up your idea and checked out what my hometown is known for... nice results, anyway:

Cologne is known for...

#1: its fashion and interior designs exhibitions.
#2: its media institutions, trade fairs and diversified industrial activities.
#3: its cathedral and its carnival, for the river Rhine that winds its way.
#4: its art galleries and markets and there will be many options for night time entertainment during the FIFA World Cup 2006...
#5: its tolerance towards any kind of lifestyle.

(and so on...)

and YES, we DO enjoy our local beer very, very, very much :-)))
...but we've to work on our punctuality, sometimes.

Mirko [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

You can sufficently and adequately characterize GERMANY in three words:

Schopenhauer
Adenauer
Beckenbauer

wi [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

The comment about americans being known for "geniality and hospitality" applies to *South Americans* according to Google.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Thanks Wi for pointing out. I missed that.

baris [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Hi Philipp, gratulacion for the nice idea!

I googled for both
"turkish are known for using weapons" and
"turks are known for using weapons".
Both didn't match any documents (on 23.01.2006, 3 p.m. in Germany).
Also no cached-documents!
But your map shows this as predujice. What is the reason for that?
I think your map needs some update! What do you think?

The first 10 results that my query returns are the followings.
"turkish are known for *":
1. The Turkish are known for hospitality, ...
2. Turkish dancers are known for their energetic, ...
3. Turkish police are known for using cruelty ...
4. Turkish people are known for their hospitality, ...
5. Turkish people are known for their ingenuity ...
6. Turkish poppies are known for their small size ...
7. Turkish Vans are known for their fascination ...
8. Turkish dishes are known for their elaborate ...
9. Turkish people are known for their ingenuity ...
10. Turkish fabrics are known for their durability

"turks are known for *":
1. Turks are known for hospitality, ...
2. Turks are known for Hospitality, ...
3. Turks are known for their mustaches ...
4. Turks are known for their mustaches, ...
5. Today the Kazakh Turks are known for their religiosity ...
6. The Turks are known for their generosity ...
7. Although the Turks are known for their thick ...
8. Turks are known for their love ...
9. Although the Turks are known for their cuisine ...
10. Bulgarians and Turks are known for their atrocities ...

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Baris, the map was a (non-scientific) snapshot of its time from my location, and my Google datacenter. Naturally, results will change over time, and also depend on your location and datacenter. Here are my current Google results for this specific query, and you can see I get different results – including the "weapons" one:

----------------------------
"turkish are known for *"
----------------------------

Turkey Hotels, Accommodation in Turkey, Budget Hotels in Turkey ...
The Turkish are known for hospitality, here cuisine meant for outstanding test, there coastline is romantic and divine, Most Turkish cities having many ...
www.turkeyhotelstravel.com/ – ...

dogbomb.co.uk – International Battle Royal
Royster. Nov 19, 2004, 22:59. Brazilians They are fecking nutters....or Turkish But again Turkish are known for using weapons ...
board.dogbomb.co.uk....

----------------------------

baris [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

so, what about changing your map's title to the following, in order not to encourage the dissonant prejudice that the "turks are well known using weapons":

The non-scientific Prejudice Map
According to Google based on $your_google_datacenter queried on $your_query_time, people and some "Battle Royal" characters in the world are known for...

The problem is, all german media is reporting on this map today and the prejudice to the turkish people here is already very bad. this map makes it worse than it is.

you understand my viewpoint?

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Prejudices are always bad! And never scientific.

baris [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

it's sure, but irrelevant.

here some facts:
* "using weapons" is not a prejudice on turks, it is a property of a "Battle Royal" character.
* the prejudice on turks in germany is bad
* this map will be clicked many times in these days by thousends of german surfers
* this map will enforce the bad prejudices on turks

what about removing the map or modifying it in order not to aid the last fact?

The Prejudice Map [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

"germans are known for precision" 18 hits
"germans are known for their engineering" 41 hits

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

> this map will enforce the bad prejudices on...

Do you think so? I beg to differ. I think it will challenge you to think about prejudices. Or just laugh at their outrageousness.

> the prejudice on turks in germany is bad

If so, what can we do to fight that? Be quiet about the fact prejudices exist?

baris [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

what about finding better algorithms to extract such information from google or other sources?

I find work on prejudice very important and usefull. we should discuss about that. but not about "Battle Royal" characters..

I think your google-search has more than two results. What about listing some other "real prejudices" about turkish people instead of "Battle Royal" characters?

baris [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

> "germans are known for their engineering" 41 hits
yes, german programmer would certainly implement a better algorithm ;-)

> "germans are known for precision" 18 hits
the title doesn't describe the map correctly. it should be more precise..
see above for a recommendation

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Baris, the thread in question is actually talking about prejudices/ stereotypes, even though they are talking about a hypothetical tournament. In any case, the Prejudice Map is not scientific and I will not continue to discuss how to apply "scientific" or "fair" prejudices, because I think prejudices are never fair or scientific. Again, don't kill the messenger. Still, thanks for your feedback.

> yes, german programmer would certainly implement a better algorithm

(Funny you say that, considering that I am indeed German.)

Yogo [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

The way you describe Indonesia is unique. There are 4 words to describe Indonesia from western people point of view. But as an Indonesian, I like that

Thierry [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

It might interesting to run a complementary search as "(ethnics) are not know for*" as well.

The results are pretty amusing.

Josephine Nichol [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Perhaps you could confront facts to prejudices on each bubble of the map. instead of promoting ignorance which is why prejudices exist, you would promote scientific knowledge. We are too full of prejudices what we need is facts.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I added a new disclaimer, so now you need to prove that you understand what the word "prejudice" means. It already worked on some users judging from an email I got! Someone actually didn't know how to show the map and said he'd only get definitions from Answers.com.

Closing this thread now and removing 1 post that made the same point over and over and included a personal attack – so, I think all has been said above.

This thread is locked – no further replies are possible. 

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