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Google's Sloppiness  (View post)

/pd [PersonRank 10]

Thursday, March 23, 2006
14 years ago

What is Brinke's problem eh ??

Yeah the world is on beta mode for the last 4.6billion yrs.. :)-

"Comparing a 2-year old to a 10-year old in the real world isn’t fair"

how true.. lets take the 2 yrs old and ask them how much they have made for the investors (pre IPO and post IPO) and ask the same question to thre 10 yr old too.. then revulate the dimensions of PhD's at play once again..sqaure that by gross product launches (albiet in beta mode) and what do we get ??

Imho, we have an entity that has more talent and guts then whats been around for the last 10 yrs...

Ok Ok .. we certainly have differences of opionions.. but how do you justify this statement "The biggest threat comes...from inside the Googleplex." ??

secondly "There was a Net before Google, and it got along fine" –

yes and it was called a drapa project .. funded by nsf and then got declass'ed.. so what were you actually impliying ?? That MSFT / YAHOO and the likes of lycos altavista etc etc were there before the google correct and it got a along fine. Again, I'll conceed the point -but factor in "Clayton M Christensen & Michael E.Raynor: The Innovator's Solution" and the disruptive theory that they postulate in the technology and innovations play pen..

yes, good that google is very disprutive.. but on the other side of the is the question , are they viable or not ??

Brinke Guthrie [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

It was actually called 'Darpa.' My point was, and IS, that Google is throwing out releases before they are ready. With Gmail, we should NOT being seeingthe rampany errors in day to day functionality that we usually get. The amount of money made for investors doesn't apply here- I own stock in none of these companies.

I just want it to work. Nothing more, nothing less. Consistently.

Prashanth Gurijala [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Yes I agree with Brinke Completely. I love Gmail but I had times when gmail throw's error pages for 30 min or more when I needed the most.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

this is interesting.. but lets butt heads ..hehehehe

"I just want it to work. Nothing more, nothing less. Consistently." – like IE6 or FF1.2 or what ??

Let me say – Yahoo Mail did not always work.. likewise when Sabeer created hotmail .. there were problems.. he was just 27 then..and made $400M look at what it has become .. Windows Live, Passport (failed) and now ID managment (by Kim et al) ..its a long journery .. I think..

now take a step back and ask yourself what has google accomplished ?? It has given a lot of players a zone to worry in. Yes, Users too.. i cant disagree with you at that..but given the facts of the history of the entity ..and what they have become at (no cost) to the users.. I think its prudent not to crib..!!

Oh btw, thks for the corrector on darpa vs drapa :)_

alek [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

My two cents is he's right – the boring "block-n-tackle" stuff that ensures things really work 24/7 is what will "win" in the long haul. I think Google has serious challenge, especially because a lot of those PhD's made a buncha $$$ from the IPO – no matter how self-motivated you are, it's a challenge to keep doing the tedious stuff that ensures stuff *always* works.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

FYI for those interested.. theres anothe thread happening at the coffee house

channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.asp ...

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

=post title changed-- :)-

from : Google's Sloppiness
to : Google, Get the Bugs Worked Out

Brinke Guthrie [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

With Gmail, we should NOT being seeingthe rampany errors

Speaking of rampany errors, I apologize for the typos!!!

"With Gmail, we should NOT being seeing the rampant errors" is what I meant to say!!

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Brinke, 4get the typos .. we are all understand... :)-

Ok has anyone got figures between gmail accounts vs hotmail vs yahoo account stats (i.e volume of singups ??)

this will interesting to benchmark againt and w/ timelines

anypointers.. ??

Brinke -thks for churning out a good converstion and thought process!!

consta [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I'm not in the software industry, but I manage a small manufacturing company and the parallels are similiar. Every company offers a collection of products and services. Savvy customers don't whine all day demanding XYZ company adds all these new products and services that THEY want. Savvy customers find the supplier that meets their needs and then they call it a day.

If google's services aren't what you're looking for, then look elsewhere. No company can turn on a dime because .001% of their customer base wants features they don't currently offer (and yes I'm considering 0 downtime a feature). Any good corporation is intimately focused on provided their customers with the best possible service. These types of posts are pure silliness, they are based on the assumption that for some odd reason Google doesn't care about improving its software. Telling google they need to reduce the downtime for GMail is like telling a Walmart supplier they need to cut costs.

  

Brinke Guthrie [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I never said they didn't care about improving the software. Quite the opposite- I am sure they DO. My point, as I have said, is after two years, it should not be as buggy as it is.

Google makes a lot of great stuff. Couldn't surf w/o the toolbar. Auto-complete is a terrific feature. GDS really works fine. And the search function of Google itself is unmatched.

I just want more consistency from GM is all.

SCJM [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I've never had any problems with Gmail... Sure, probably less than once a month I get a login error, but I can always get in within a couple minutes. I usually check it a dozen times a day too. I'm proud to say I've never had a Yahoo or Hotmail account, but I've seen them before and they seem far inferior to Gmail. I access Google a lot (according to Search History I've made 20,000 searches since the program began) and I never have any of the problems you mention...

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

"Savvy customers find the supplier that meets their needs and then they call it a day. "

yeah..thats a good line :)- ... until the needs change.. and when the supply chain has no further offering..what happens ??

I think that is what Brinke is cribing about.... is stability of current offering.

Without GMail, I cant survive.. but what is the alternative out there ??
nada..zippo.. no other offering which can met the gmail experience!!

Justin Pfister [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Brinke, what makes mail the Net’s true killer app? Does it keep telling the diabetic user to eat candy.. You can thank Digg.com users for that zinger and Philipp for finding it.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

"I submitted my browser to Google Search because of Gmail, Orkut and Adsense. But now, Gmail is beginning to see competition from MSN Live.Mail and there's wonderful reviews coming in for Yahoo Mail Beta. Not only that, I'm beginning to feel the urge to use my own Unique domain for my email not .gmail"

....just kidden :)-

Caleb E [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I'm with SCJM, i've never experienced extended downtime.

I'm not sure everyone realizes what gmail is trying to do. They are the only one with thier snazzy AJAXy interface publicly available.

As for other google products being bare bones, Gmail is really an exception as far as google products go. They start out bare bones and then improve quickly and drastically as they find out what people *want* from the product. Look at google video-- it's focus was completely recentered. Look at google local and how it went from just the search to the current focus on the satellite imagery. So as far as other services go, give google a break and let them do what they do best.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

"give google a break and let them do what they do best."

....and would that be Caleb ????

Brinke Guthrie [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Email is THE killer app because it has basically re-written the rules of how people communicate. It has replaced the phone as the communication tool of choice for many people. It has certainly hit the USPS hard, for example. Why mail Grandma and have her get a letter in a week, when you can click and have her get the same text in 1 second?

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

ok i hate it when chat goes down... further analysis brings me this (now)

thegooglist.blogspot.com/2006/ ...

yeah ..googs always lets us poor buggers down. :(-

Ashman [PersonRank 4]

14 years ago #

I agree I hate all this beta crap. Just take responcibity for your errors google!

alek [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Ironically, while I'm an infrequent user of gmail, it burped twice on me just now before it worked the third time.

Josue R. [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Brinke, great article, it got my attention... i do have to agree to what you have to say about the "unavailability" of most Google services. I mean, Google is not longer a little kid anymore.... it happens to be the leading search engine yet undenialbly a trusted resource in online services that we all depend on it to run our digital life. When such services become inaccessible, we take rage against the company and we lean more towards the competition but its really not the best way to go. Now Google is one of the big boys in the big playground with Yahoo, MSN, and ASK so Google has to learn to grow fast and adapt without causing noticable and unforgiving errors or unavailable services, and yes i also agree that Google has to release their "beta" tags off most services after having them online for a while, its starting to seem childish in a way.

Although, you may vaild points about Google's lack of productivity and GMail's decrease in performance you have to expect that you will encounter bugs from time-to-time. /pd does make a reasonable point to us that E-Mail is an evolving web service that no company has perfected yet. Such that Hotmail and Yahoo have matured with the changing technological world and improved upon. Google would like to think they have beaten every email service out there but they haven't, but hey, even i have to take a step back into reality and see that thats not true. Any kid in a garage can come up with the most sophisticated and brilliant email service today, next week, or next decade leaving Google, Yahoo, Hotmail and the rest in the dust so we must be involved and encourage our email service providers with better ideas when they can't think of one themselves or suggest often why we users may benefit from a "cool" or "productive" feature. But as every company does business in any way, they hope to keep loyal fans with them thru good times and bad times and then reward us with goodies.

Hotmail, Yahoo, and the rest have changed dramatically yet the parent companies behind these services do little until their competition has something new on the silver plate... they start to impress us with new features that work and some that don't. Such companies like these i have come to hate in past years. After all, they have tons of money to spend on improving their email service continously, and yet they forget about us anyhow.

I for one, am a fan of small start-ups, whether they be email services or other products (30boxes, writely, NumSum, flickr, digg, etc) i truly become a loyal user to what they have to offer, because after all, they do it with a fraction of the money big tech's have in their fat wallet or no money at all. Yet they pour their sweat and tears into their pet projects and improve faster and more reliable and stable than their bigger competitons can produce. Look at all the start-ups out there and compare them to the big tech companies' products. Have you noticed the level of commitment they put into their services? I have and i'm proud to be their continuing loyal user.

Now since Google is yet learning from their users, if i were in their corporate management team, i would be motivated to hire enthusiastic, initiative, inspiring, and great working developers and designers to continue working on each Google product (and they don't have to be PHd's either, just knowledgable about the programming lang in need and the outcome of the product). I have stumbled upon many blogs and post from varies people who wish to improve upon Google products and Gmail for free. I would honorably offer my time and commitment to improve Gmail without compensation but hey i don't have a PHd and i'm no where near any of Google's favorable universities but i'l tell you what, i'm a great web developer and give my best to whatever i design or build for people to user online. I'm confident i'll do great improvements on Gmail and personally respond to user feedbacks/bugs, but since i'll probably never get hired by Google, i'll continue to be a loyal fan and user of Google services.

Elias KAI [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Well,,,,, I had so many important emails .... guess what ....

I found out most of e-mails above 5 MB disappeared...

weired

right about the Google Talk 30 minutes+ OFF

CJ Millisock [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Let's not forget that Google claims to spend at least 70% of their time working on things that we users don't even see. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

I personally am more than willing to put up with GMail's down time if it means I don't have to use Y! or M$. They're still stuck in the old way of doing things: sorting into folders, deleting stuff, etc. Searching and tagging are in EVERY way better than sorting into folders.

Common, Brinke. GMail isn't down that often. How often is it down for you?

Nathan W.L. Boyle [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

The long-term Beta tag is getting old. But I'd rather they imply it is imperfect, than declaring it a finished product as Microsoft does.

Sam Davyson [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I totally agree on the customer support. It is absolutely terrible. There rae a big company – employ more people to deal with customer issues!

SCJM [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I never really thought about it, but for having the largest computer network/super computer/etc in the world (or so they say) there shouldn't be ANY downtime for any of their products.

Ratatösk [PersonRank 2]

14 years ago #

I have completely different experience than the author here:
I have gmail now nearly I near, and I got about 5-10 times the error: oops can't sign in... in a year, that's not bad.

I just clicked "refresh" and was immediately in it. I never had waiting times, and if it couldn't send, I just waited 10 seconds and then it did.
In hotmail it would probably screw up the whole browser and your work would be gone.
I don't wanna think about how many times I couldn't acces msn; google talk always works, msn is crazy all the time. Me and my friends have troubles more than once a week. Not only the email (hotmail), also the chat program is messed up.
And you know what? Go back to yahoo mail, your own fault, but gmail IS the best product since google search in my opinion. It had so many new cool features in a year, and others emails don't change. And if they change, only to catch up to gmail....
And google was once down so far in history, msn, live.com, hotmail and are sooo many times not accessible

Caleb E [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

> ....and would that be Caleb ????

Developing based on what people want

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

yeah I agree Caleb. I think they do a darn good job at that given the fact of features and how fast the react.. remember the popup in chat -how quickly they removed it.. they listen too and are fast

as a side bar : via matt (22/03/06)
mattcutts.com/blog/bigdaddy-st ...

"We’re down to just 1-2 data centers left in the switchover to Bigdaddy. It’s possible that the Bigdaddy switchover will be complete in the next week or two. Just as a reminder, Bigdaddy is a software upgrade to Google’s infrastructure that provides the framework for a lot of improvements to core search quality in the coming months (smarter redirect handling, improved canonicalization, etc.). A team of dedicated people has worked very hard on this change; props to them for the code, sweat, and hours they’ve put into it"

shawn [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I love Gmail. I hate Yahoo (stioll get so much spam in my inbox) and MSN is a joke at this point.

Caleb E [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

btw, brinke, about your analogy to the roman empire, the roman empire was [one of?] the longest lasting empires on earth. it took over 500 years for it to fall and we're still following a lot of thier traditions today. And i've gotten a human response from thier tech support almost every time i've emailed them.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

oh gosh..we will need to write a gibbons type book " the decline and fall of the google empire" if google lasts like 500 yrs!! :)-

seanjstrand [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Wonder why I still can noty read or send mail?

And yep i do have the thing they told me to get and installation went OK, but can i read or send mail, NO WAY! So it comes as no great plee that I am peeved to say the least.

Rgds SEanS. or seanjstrand[put at-character here]gmail.com

E K [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #


I'm getting really tired of Gmail support (tho do like the interface). Google may be slowly teetering on the bleeding edge and about to swing from WhizzBangKids to DumboCantGetItRight ... and the financial fallout (stock price) could be dramatic.

Supposedly Marissa Mayer, Google VP of User Experience or someSuch, doesn't use Gmail. Why ? It doesn't scale: "“I use Gmail for my personal e-mail – 15 to 20 e-mails a day – but on my work e-mail I get as many as 700 to 800 a day, so I need something really fast. I use an e-mail application called Pine.”"

blogoscoped.com/archive/2006-0 ...

OREO [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I know, I thought that was pretty interesting. So is she saying, Gmail isn't fast enough? Not a good way to advertise her company's products. lol

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