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The Browser Wars (Cartoon)  (View post)

Kirby Witmer [PersonRank 10]

Thursday, April 27, 2006
14 years ago5,137 views

What don't ya like about IE 7.0, philipp?? or shouldn't i even get you started?? :-)

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

There's several issues:
- I can't completely configure the toolbars, so I can't get rid of annoying buttons I don't need
- The menu is not at the top – also annoying
- Why is there a need to reposition the refresh button – just to be original?
- Slighty broken CSS rendering on some pages I've tested with, though this is a different issue and they might get this fixed before the final release

They had several years to come up with something great, but it seems they spent too much time thinking about how to redo the interface. The best thing about IE6 for users who use it, I'm sure, is that they're used to the interface. If IE7 comes along with a greatly changed interface, I wonder how many will tell themselves: Now that I need to learn a new browser anyway, I might as well go to Firefox! I don't see a single improvement right now which would make me want to switch away from Firefox, even though FF has its share of bugs (some of them serious).

I think by losing trust in their own 90s philosophy – make every app look and behave the same – MS also lost their biggest strength on the desktop.,..

901010 [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

another minor issue I have with IE 7 is that it crashes every second web page I go to. seriously. I open, go to a site, and then every time I try going to a second site it crashes.

maybe i'll bug them on the phone

Kirby Witmer [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I agree, the refresh button is a pain!! But over all I've been fairly impressed with it! They've done a great job with the tabs. Beats firefox or opera by far on that aspect.

Robert Scholz [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I don't think programmers should design user interfaces. Usability professionals should do that. And usability experts shouldn't do any programming. That's what programmers are good for. Successful companies know to separate these two areas of knowledge. So just say no to books like User Interface for Programmers. You never see a book named Programming for Interaction Designers (or do you?). There's a reason for that and the same should apply to programmers.

Splasho [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Unfortunately some programmers have to multi task. All I can do is program but I end up doing far too much Graphic Design, which is a shame for my users! Obviously in a big company like Microsoft this shouldn't be an issue though.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Robert, while I agree that a programmer is not necessarily a good interface designer and vice versa, I'd say the two can overlap. Some people are good at doing both. Sort of like how some people can paint and make music, though there's likely no significantly great overlap so people who make music shouldn't necessarily be expected to do a good job painting...

Roger Browne [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

It's not always bad for software developers to work on the user interface. They often know the underlying model better than anyone else, and can translate that into a very satisfying-to-use system.

Of course I'm talking "software developers" here – people like Philipp and myself – not "cubicle coders". I'm also not talking about the other extreme – "boffins" who are the ultraprogrammers but not useful for anything else.

As an analogy, there are plenty of architects who know how to build, and there are plenty of small builders who offer a successful "design-and-build" service.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

But with the importance of user's experince strategies....UX'er and UI experts are becoming a norm rather then an exception as part of the development team ....not just coders and analysts...

Skill sets do overlap..but its not a very good business strategy to have the talent pool wearing many hats, especially when building app's where the reach could in the miilions of user counts....

Jim [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

If you don´t like interface of WMP, try to try Billy.
sheepfriends.com/?page=billy

That´s ultimately the simplest MP3 player ever.

jstarek [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

May I ask why you consider "User interface design for programmers" a good recommendation? I think as a only-so-very-slightly-advanced user (not to mention as a really advanced user), one has to dismiss most of the advice given on the linked sample text page...

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Design strategy is important right from positions of content, colours used, how link are presented, what features are most likely yo be used and all that fun stuff makes the sceanrio interesting espically when one wants to obtain critical mass status on an app. The more users who "glide" the app- its easier to obtain market peneration.

Users don't care about the delivery- all they want to see is the baby!! :)-

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

JSTarek, can you list your arguments and some of the details you don't like in Spolsky's advice? We can discuss this here.

Wouter Schut [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Microsoft probably knows that 98% of all users only use the adres-bar, the back- and the close button. I am no fan of Microsoft but I think they are on the right track. Only geeks want to customize everything.

Mark my words, you will see menu-bars disappearing everywhere just after Vista has launched.

It doesn't have to be all better, it will be the new standard. It doesn't really matter what we think, or anybody else for that matter.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

> Only geeks want to customize everything.

Possibly, but then why make the menu bar customizable in IE7 (and yet not allow people to push it to the very top)? To me it looks like most of new IE features are mostly targeted at geeks in the first place. I've never heard my grandpa demand tabs...

/pd [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

yeah your correct Philipp ... but the future users are entwined with techno gadgets and are savvy with technology too..

Products need be forward looking in terms of usage for generic techno users ... not geeks par sec!!

Justin Pfister [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

once you start Tabbing.. It completely elevates your browsing experience. I feel incapable of doing any sort of serious browsing with a non-tabbing browser.

Some feature, like Tabs might be designed for and by geeks but then catch on to everyone else.. like the remote control. Maybe when the Infra-Red geeks were messing around with sending signals everywhere no one thought that was going to be loved by the normal users.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I'm browsing Firefox without tabs :) In general, I prefer Single Document Interfaces to Multi Document Interfaces, because I use alt-tab – which works in any application and is always the same. But yeah, I would be lost without Windows tabbing...

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