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Google vs IE7  (View post)

Splasho [PersonRank 10]

Monday, May 1, 2006
13 years ago6,558 views

Yep, I think Google is being disingenuous here and trying to simply get bad publicity Microsoft. As you say, Firefox does it by default, it would be irritating to have to choose a search provider. In fact IE 7 even remembers that I set IE 6 to Google and doesn't make me have to change it again (unlike Google which ticks a box on installations saying 'Set My default Search to Google')

Rick [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

I don't think Google is in the wrong for this move. They don't make Firefox, as MS does IE, they just promote it as an alternative to IE. The fact that Google toolbar comes with Ff is probably just a term of their promotional agreement. If you go to the "Learn More" page about Firefox you are able to download Ff without the toolbar pre-installed.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

but MSFT have an agressive plan by promoting MSN search via IE7. Heres another good article on these thoughts ;

theglobeandmail.com/servlet/st ...

and heres a small snip from the IE team
blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006 ...

What we are seeing here is the "return of the browser wars" -Sequl 3-!! :)-

Kirby Witmer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

This is going to be fun to watch. But I still think Google is over reacting, cuz its really simple to change the default search engine in IE 7.0. If you don't like MSN search, change it!!

Michael Fagan [PersonRank 3]

13 years ago #

I'm surprised to see this actually, given how important the IE team has seen this issue and how much they've worked towards being neutral blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006 ...

Barnaby Capel-Dunn [PersonRank 2]

13 years ago #

Surely the important difference- correct me if I'm wrong on this – is that IE itself is the default BROWSER in most cases? People have to make a conscious decision to download and install Firefox and to that extent Google cannot be accused of loading the dice. The same cannot be said of Microsoft. Does my logic stand up?

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Michael – yeah, they've worked and – guess what – they ended with MSN as the only search engine installed by default. Very neutral. Indeed...

Splasho [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

I don't think anyone's suggesting Microsoft was neutral. They picked a search engine they made for their browser. However they also made it very easy to change
But Google are on their front page promoting a browser which has their search engine set as default and their toolbar installed. They also provide software which (IIRC) only allows you to opt out from it setting Google as they default search engine.

I don't think they have the moral high ground in claiming that the user should be presented with a choice especially as many people loading IE7 for the first time will have no idea what Google or MSN are.

Jim [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

This is not great topic. It´s not as important as it seems to be. One click and you have Google instead of MSN. IE 7 is not able to make any huge attack on Google´s position.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Ita all abou the ad markets .. and not the search markets .. when vista comes out with IE7 as default.. then search becomes engine for revenue

MSN is going after the ADSENSE markets .. google is trying to make a stop by making a big noise.. will google win now.. becuase the IE7 users have the option to opt out of MSN search.. So no infrignment and DOJ foo happening on that round..!!

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

> One click and you have Google instead of MSN

There are many users who will never make that one click. Changing a browser option is natural for most of us writing here, but if I look around in my family many people won't ever do that...

pacificdave [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

i personally love supporting Google. it just seems to come natural. but this doesn't seem right. MS developed and put money into IE7 so they should be able to do whatever they want with their product. if they decide to make the default search engine unchangeable then that's on them. that would push more people away from IE7 but again, it's their product. i think Google is playing a little evil marketing here for Firefox.... that's all.

Jim [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

> There are many users who will never make that one click.

But if you see some strange box with huge button at your favorite uncluttered websearch homepage, you will click. It easy and logical. I believe, that search box in IE 7 can bring to Windows Live... up to 5 % of share at max.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

You are right, I forgot about the Google trick to put the big arrow below the search box... that surely convinces some!

concerned netzien [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

If Google really thinks the user should be able to choose the default search engine when they first boot a browser, then why did they pay a proported $5mm to be the default search engine in Firefox? How much did they pay for the same choice-limiting placement in Opera? The hypocrisy isn't that they promote Firefox on their web site, but that they paid cash money to *not* offer that same choice in browsers they influence.

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Microsoft is the monopolist in the Operating Systems market and tries to use that fact to gain monopoly in any other computer market – web browsers, media players, search engines, etc.
We should apply other rules to monopolists and their monopolistic practices than to normal companies.

John Magnue [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

I look forward to MS taking away market share from Google.

I stopped using goog several months ago and find MSN offers more timely and relevant results.

James Boulter [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

"I stopped using goog several months ago and find MSN offers more timely and relevant results."

Really? I find the present state of MSN to be the least relevant search engine I've ever used. If they could just make it more relevant and integrate it with IE7, MS would be laughing, but no sign yet...

pacificdave [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

uh yeah.... "more timely and relevant results"

they're new live search ajax based interface is annoyingly slow. the relevancy of the results are the same as they were 4 years ago. MSN boasts about updating their search algorithm within the last couple of years but there have been only a couple major changes. Google has made many major updates and they continue to tweak their search index and relevancy algorithm to provide the better results. maybe MSN Search will catch up in the future but for now they're no where near it.

Niraj Sanghvi [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Will adding google really be as simple as adding one click?

Also, it looks like Amazon's a9 service has switched over to using Windows Live in place of Google.

or [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

We should really think about why Google said this, and not just react quickly. I don't think it's hyporcrisy, but instead a legitimate concern given MS market share. Users have to choose to download firefox, IE will come by default on computers. This plus the default to MSN can have a dramatic affect on search market share, since most users won't bother to switch. This is about growing future market share.

All this does not mean that MS should change the way they are doing it with IE7, just that I think Google have a legitimate reason to be concerned and point that out.

You got tot also remember that most people knowledgeable enough to download an alternative browser, also know how to and would switch to the search engine of their choice. A large number of MS users would either not know how to switch or won't bother.

Niraj Sanghvi [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

or, there's another reason it's not hypocrisy: Firefox is a third party product. Microsoft could have paid to become the default search engine just as Google could. Google is not the creator of the browser. It's a matter of Microsoft illegally leveraging their OS/browser monopoly.

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Hey! Google did NOT paid to became the default search engine in Firefox. It always was the default search engine in Firefox, Mozilla or Netscape. Mozilla Foundation don't do such agreements. It doesn't sell places in it's products. Google and many other companies (and individuals) donate Mozilla Foundation, but this doesn't have influence on the products. Google is the default search engine, because it's simple the best search engine on the market.

pacificdave [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

[put at-character here]Ludwik: i haven't found anything confirming this but this article does make sense. take a gander if you would.

searchenginejournal.com/?p=305 ...

also click through to Jason Calcanis' blog post. this was on digg a couple of months ago too. you're right... they don't outright sell places but ?why not? put the biggest money maker as the default search engine. 80% or anywhere near that number is a little more than what you get from Adsense so i'm pretty sure there was a deal cut somewhere.

Niraj Sanghvi [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Ludwik: Try this article: news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39 ...

Gervase Markham, a Mozilla staff member, said on Sunday that over the past year the Foundation has hired around 10 people, which would not have been possible without the money that Firefox makes by linking to Google.

"The Google deal has provided a significant stream of income for the Foundation," said Markham, speaking at the FOSSDEM conference in Brussels. "Without that deal the Foundation would not have been in a position to have hired some of the people that it has."

Following an agreement reached last year, Firefox includes Google as the default option for users wanting to search the Web directly, and also has its default start page hosted by Google. Markham didn't reveal full details of the Foundation's deal with Google.

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Yeah, I know that Mozilla Foundation get money from Google. I know that Google employee some people that works under Firefox. Even Ben Goodger, the leader of Firefox project, works at Google. I know all that. But Google has been the default search engine in firefox/firebird/phallus/phoenix from the very beginning, BEFORE Google started to support the project. Mozilla Foundation several times has demented those statements and said very clear that any part of Firefox's interface isn't for sale. Microsoft could NOT "have paid to become the default search".

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=182

Niraj Sanghvi [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

In any case, the point was that Google did not have an unfair advantage over other search engines in becoming the default in Firefox. In the case of IE7, this is not true of Microsoft.

ADNAN RANGWALA [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

[moved from other thread]

Adding google as the default search in Ie 7 Beta 2 is only a click away. Those who want to use Google will do so.

Stop bickering over those small things.. will ya Eric?

Jon Sinclair [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

It really doesn't make any difference – I don't plan to even look at IE7 – especially after they admitted that they had "borrowed" (MSFT speak for steal) the best ideas from Firefox. Anyone that believes this version won't be a target for a wave of new Trojans and virus attacks is dreaming.

Firefox has a pulldown menu with as many seach engines as you care to load and you can quickly chose between them – - even MSN!

I don't think this is browser wars. I think this is more whinning by MSN and their FUD engines.

elyk [PersonRank 6]

13 years ago #

Another difference is that in firefox, you can change the search engine easily from the drop down menu, and it is obvious which engine you're using. At least in beta 2 preview, there is no clear way to change the search engine used.

Kirby Witmer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

>Also, it looks like Amazon's a9 service has switched over to using Windows
>Live in place of Google.

when did this happen?? I didn't know they did that.

Ludwik Trammer [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

> especially after they admitted that they had "borrowed"
> (MSFT speak for steal) the best ideas from Firefox.

I think that's OK. Browsers always used ideas borrowed from competitors. Everybody do that, Firefox too. Tabs were first in Opera Browser, bookmarks/favourite in Mosaic, etc. Firefox was probably the first browser, but not the first computer program, with extensions. Building new things with the existing ideas is a good thing. Scientists and inventors always did this.

I don't like IE 7 because:

1. It still doesn't support many internet standards. It doesn't even fully support XHTML or CSS and doesn't support such things like SVG or XForms at all. It is blocking new technologies.

2. It support useless unstandarized crap.

3. Company that stood behind it is a monopolist.

4. It works only under Windows.

5. It's part of high-priced Operating System, so it's not free.

6. It's not Open Source

7. It's here only because of Firefox. If Internet Explorer one more time won the browsers war Microsoft would forgot about its users again.

But of course I prefer IE 7 under previous IE versions.

Suresh S [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Let Microsoft set Google Talk as Default Messenger
and Google set MSN as Search Engine

Mike Abundo [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

Gotta love that Marissa Mayer. Gutsy *and* hot.

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