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Tiananmen Square Remembrance  (View post)

Wang Y. [PersonRank 1]

Sunday, June 4, 2006
13 years ago6,475 views

Philip, I noticed you have some posts about "tiananmen incident", are you afraid that your blog be banned by my goverment some day?

Splasho [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

I love that blog post you've uncovered..

T G [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

U.S. urges China to reassess-- When do we reassess Kent
State? Different scope & location, same deal.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

yeah, you come out with the classic ....!!

"ironic statement, “For Internet users in China, Google remains the only major search engine that does not censor any web pages.”)."

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #


Monday, April 13, 1998 = >the old Times article..

time.com/time/time100/leaders/ ...

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

> are you afraid that your blog be
> banned by my goverment some day?

Yeah, that could happen, and possibly I could become blacklisted to enter China, if such an action is ever taken (?). But the worries you have in Europe blogging about this are very, very tiny compared to the worries blogging about this from China... imagine how brave a Chinese blogger from China would be to talk about the same issues.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Rebecca MacKinnon has a "never forgot" writeup too

rconversation.blogs.com/rconve ...

Search-Engines-Web.com [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Agony & Anguish versus Ecstasy & Bliss.....The Capricious Odyssey of Mankind

searchengines.wordpress.com/

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Interesting that Rebecca points to HRIChina.org. Google says 100 algorithms come in play for ranking a site – but it's a single demand from the Chinese gov't that destroyed any ranking for the 12,000+ pages of HRIChina.org, which are censored. Of course, HRIChina.org is small matters – if you count by sheer size, which admittedly isn't a good way to measure – compared to the 28 million missing pages of news.bbc.co.uk.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

how are deriving at the stat's on "destroyed any ranking for the 12,000+ pages of HRIChina.org, " ??

Do you have tombstone information on baselines ? 12K pages is a lot of content.. as is 28M Pages on BBC..

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

See here:

site:hrichina.org on Google.cn, 0 results, censorship disclaimer
google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN& ...

site:hrichina.org on Google.com, about 13,100 results
google.com/search?hl=en&q= ...

... same for news.bbc.co.uk.

fisker [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

"tiananmen incident" was not discussed in china.

cner [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

Actually, many many youth college students in China know the truth about Tiananmen incident. But China government don't think so.

Dan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

[moved from: Googled lost its way]

The first thing is to not do any harm and by knuckling under to Chinese dictates you joint their team even if you profess other ideals. Is it really necessary to make every last dollar (or yen or euro or?).

Best of luck in reconsidering – or is corporate policy firmly entrenched in cement while marketing must stay nimble?

Martin Wang [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

To Warrior!

Ryan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

There's a way around that censorship:
dotcult.com/?pid=comment&n ...

Brandon Byers [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

google.com/trends?q=tiananmen
Trend is rather predictable. A spike each year around the anniversary.

Brandon Byers [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

btw, not sure if y'all are ignoring TG or what, but I can't.

Bring up Kent State? Please tell me how it's the same thing because I honestly don't see it.

With Kent State, you have an isolated occurrence involving a handful of soldiers (firing their weapons for 13 seconds, killing 4), which was swiftly dealt with, and which every student in the US learns about in school. Tell me, when/where did you first hear about it?

With Tiananmen Square, you have one of many such events (why do you think in the days leading up to the massacre, the parents / neighbors were begging the students to save their own lives and end the hunger strike?) involving official orders going through the Chinese military. At 4am, in pitch darkness, the soldiers who'd surrounded the crowded square shot flares into the night sky, and then the night lit up with machine gunfire as they mowed down the crowd. Thousands died. Unlike Kent State, in which the massacre stopped as soon as it started, the Chinese military spent hours in a deliberate campaign to "remove the students from the square", in whatever form was convenient (thus using such tools as tanks and AK's).

And how was this dealt with? China privately glorifies its actions, and implies it would gladly do the same thing again even now. And what are Chinese students taught in school? Clearly, nothing. They are, as wretchard so apty called it, blind: fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2 ...

But don't take my word on it. Compare / contrast for yourself:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananme ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Sta ...

You know, I'd thought such ignorance was past us. It saddens me to see, you've proven me wrong.

Dan Tobias [PersonRank 6]

13 years ago #

And, of course, the U.S. government doesn't impose any censorship that blocks mention or Web-indexing of information about the Kent State shooting.

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

What about the uS Gov imposing Censorship on "Abu Grahib" images eh ??
What about cencorship under the current Sceanrios of the NSA wire tapping ??
What about ..ok 'nuff said..

Censorship comes in various forms.. ..internet search is just one of them..

/pd [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

heres what --'was' happening on the other side :)-

andrewlih.com/blog/2006/05/31/ ...

bobby fletcher [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

I'd like to offer couple more reference in addition to PBS Frontline's "The Tank Man", where it reported the fact Chinese government did investigate this, and release casualty figure of 240 some dead (incidentally in-line with our own NSA intel estimate.)

An article by Gregory Clark on pack journalism:

mparent7777.livejournal.com/77 ...

"the so-called massacre was in fact a mini civil war as irate Beijing citizens sought to stop initially unarmed soldiers sent to remove students who had been demonstrating freely in the square for weeks. When the soldiers finally reached the square there was no massacre."

An article by Columbia Journal Review on passive journalism:

archives.cjr.org/year/98/5/tia ...

"as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.
...
Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances."

[Just for reference, throwing molotov cocktail at riot police is a crime in US.]

Aaron Mills [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

Did you know this blog is on the first page on google.cn? ;)

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

For which search query Aaron?

Ionut Alex. Chitu [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

google blog, for example
google.com/search?hl=zh-CN& ...

bobby fletcher [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

Here are some of the search result I found about Tiananmen using Baidu.com.

I used the keywords "天安门 89" ["Tiananmen 89"]:

Here's a blog complete with photos and frank discussion:

starfox.cn/wowo/article.asp?id ...

Here are few more I found on Baidu.com:

mpm.3c3e.com/modules/planet/vi ...

Two netters argued weither hundreds of thousands of university students were killed during TAM. They called it "89 Student Movement Massacare":

zhidao.baidu.com/question/5659 ...

Netters are trading VCD of some artist's concert performance during TAM protest:

fmusic.cn/bbs/printpage.asp?Bo ...

This thread is locked as it's old... but you can create a new thread in the forum. 

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