<<Palestinian surfer marks locations of hundreds of Arab villages that existed before 1948 war on Google Earth map >>

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/833077/google_m.jpg

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3274796,00.html

look what the 41 talkback say:
<< 41. Good.
You'll get back your virtual villages and your virtual land and build a virtual state (because you cant produce anything on yourselves) and that's where you'll stay, dreaming...>>

im sure that he's right!! theyll get nothing from us!

In other news, the US just vetoed a UN resolution condemning the Israel attacks and urging Israel to withdraw troops from Gaza. The EU says that they Israel attacks on Lebanon are out of proportion, whereas Bush calls it a defense war. (Sources e.g.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-5950575,00.html ,
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/world.aspx?ID=BD4A232767 .)

first, Israel is about to launch an attack on Lebanon & Iran (and if Syria knows whats best for her than she shouldnt interfere)

and according to what ive heard, Bush said that Israel has all rights to defend itself and has all the support from the US side. so Israel doesnt really listen to the UN nor anyone else (especially not when theyve got an approval from Bush to attack Lebanon & Hezbollah.
BTW, Israel is now being attacked by the Hezbollah. (dont worry, theyll get what they deserve). theyre sending rocket missiles towards Israel territory, so Israel must defend their civilians

p.s.
the news that are shown in europe isnt that true. the Israeli news are reliable than the europian news. (and im not saying that because the Israeli news are better, its just that the europian news doesnt show the big picture. just small parts of the picture. for example: when Tzahal (IDF) trashes houses in Gaza, its because there were terrorists in those houses, and not because they got bored!

Are you sure those killed children are terrorists?
(BTW Not a european, but a full american source: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/gaza/index.html)

A, so called civilised, country has to have other means than just brutal force (that btw doesn't reach its goals) to achieve peace (I hope this is the final goal).

Sorry, really no discussion for this forum, but I had to reply to this...

<<to achieve peace>>
peace?
lol,
youll be able to make peace with a wall and not with them.
and that the problem that IDF have. the terrorists hide inside houses (Arab houses) and then when they attack the house and take it down, the terrorists get killed and unfortunately the kids that cause no harm die too.
i wanna see a different country that do the same, kill the terrorists and save the children.

Art-One, now you see why the european news are a big fraud?
cause again, they dont show you the big picture

Oh man, you're so biased...

I'm happy that there are other Israeli that belief in peace:
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en
http://www.mideastweb.org/about.htm
Etc.

I sure hope those kind of people will become the majority one day.

Peace is your only way out and can only be reached by talking. Not by shooting...

i know mate,
but the Arabs are those who doesnt want the peace. did you see any Israeli suiciders?

David: discussion is much too complex to continue it here on this blog. Come over to Belgium and we'll discuss it with a beer called Westvleteren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westvleteren). Allright?

sure
im in :)

one problem though,
where and how do you want to discuss?

Any violence (from either side) just puts MORE violence on the table, it always makes things WORSE!

Peace can only be achieved by peace, you don't hit a child to teach her/him not to hit on the other kids.

That's the way I see it!

David, I prefer to discuss it with words not weapons :-) .
Where -> whenever you come to Belgium ...

untill ill come to Belgium,
let me tell you something.. im a very nice person (:P) but when it comes to defending my home country, ill do anything to ' win ' the argument.

and iZeitgeist,
i know,
but its different here.
im sure you dont mind going out and have fun, without having some fears about suicide bombers and stuff.. am i right?

------
and because there is no other post about the war in the mid-east i think we should continue this here..

ohh and 2 more things..
at least 5 or 7 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped, and some of them are killed..
thats how this whole thing started in the first place..

and 300(!) rocket missiles were launched to the north side of Israel, in 3 days
who are the bad guys now?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3275609,00.html

A good forum for discussions on this topic is Global Voices Online via Hannan

http://notes.co.il/hanan/index.asp

or another blog that I follow is http://ontheface.blogware.com/

I tend to refrain from posting on such topics or continuing a discussion on this topic, for the simple reasons, that its like I would be infringing on the 20% of the this blog.

I have my own opinions and thoughts, BUT this fourm is certainly not the place to share it.

David – mainstream news everywhere in the world are biased towards some side or another. Even if you have a wide range of accepted view points in mainstream media, you end up having a restriction in spectrum. You believe Israel has every right to do what they did but you should know that *every* war in the world so far has been fought as a "defense war". Yes, even Hitler fought under that premise – Hitler didn't say that he was terrorizing countries, terrorists by definition are always the other people. Am I saying Israel politics equal those of Hitler? No, I'm saying these things have to be *analyzed* and discussed but not by overgeneralizing them by saying e.g. "the Arabs are those who doesnt want the peace" or "it's a defense war".

From a chapter discussing peace processes in the Middle East, from Understanding Power:

Man: There's also a different mentality between the Arabs and Jews that figures into it too, don't you think – isn't that always going to get in the way of peace?

Noam Chomsky: They're the same kind of people, they have the same kind of mentality. They bleed when they're cut, they mourn when their children are killed. I'm not aware of any difference between them.

"Peace is your only way out and can only be reached by talking. Not by shooting..."

Art-One – do you think Israel hasn't tried to talk with the Hezbollah??? I can understand your concerns on how Israel shouldn't use weapons... but obviously you haven't been paying attention and you sound extremely ignorant with your blunt statements.

If you read carefully, before Israel started to defend itself with weapons, the Hezbollah has kidnapped eight Israeli soldiers and killed eight of them, planning to transfer the other two soldiers to Iran. Israel demanded that the soldiers will be returned immediately, but the Hezbollah wanted a prisoner-trade – releasing captured terrorist in exchange for the soldiers. Well, finally Israel isn't willing to put up with this crap and warned Lebanon (which is controlled undemocratically by the Hezbollah) that they will get hurt badly if the soldiers are not returned. Since then the Hezbollah has been firing over 184 Katyusha rockets into northern Israel which led thousands Israelis to take refuge in bomb shelters.

Some countries condemned Israel's actions, but Israel today set three conditions for any cease-fire:

1. The release of the two Israeli soldiers seized by Hezbollah in the cross-border raid on Wednesday that touched off the current fighting
2. A halt to rocket fire by Hezbollah
3. A decision by the Lebanese government to implement a United Nations resolution calling for the disarmament of Hezbollah.

Before you continue to stand in the ignorant "peacemakers" talking side, try to educate yourself a little better instead of posting such "I know what I'm talking about" remarks on this forum. And Philipp, I definitely think your comparison to Hitler's "defensive war" is erroneous.

Israel,

Before landing like this and starting your campaign, you should consider the following toughts:

- Beside the "It's their fault" and "they started it", to get to any peaceful situation, trust has to be the bond of either parties, people should understand each other and feel they can reject others' ideas with no conflicts being created. It's easier to judge than to understand. It's take lots of efforts, patience and courage, to either side not to get inflamed when more fuel is put into them. One should show the best example to be followed, not hide behind their reasons -even is they are true- to get there rights. One should get a global view of the problem; when concentrating on the micros of it, you can only solve part of it. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a bit of your rights for the sake of humanity, if only people were not so proud of themeselves then maybe they can achieve something.

Thank you,

> And Philipp, I definitely think your comparison
> to Hitler's "defensive war" is erroneous.

Again, I did not compare any two wars, and I tried to emphasize this in my comment. Please see it again; the point I was making is that we need to look beyond propaganda language used on *any* side to find the facts, and to spot propaganda language, it is helpful to look into the past. I did not make any assumption at all as to what the facts may be – as Pd mentioned, there are better places to discuss the specifics than in this forum.

lets settle this once and for all..
the Arabs doesnt want peace and heres why:

this whole northern side of Israel ;
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=israel&ie=UTF8&ll=32.821903,35.312805&spn=1.029412,2.768555&t=h&om=1

is vulnerable and can be attacked from the southern side of Lebanon

now, the Hezbollah said that they can send (in addition) rockets to this side of Israel (places like Tel Aviv)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=israel&ie=UTF8&ll=32.056973,34.727783&spn=1.038184,2.768555&t=h&om=1

by that Hezbollah has declared war on Israel, and Israel must do anything to defend itself!
the Hezbollah's rockets range just got better. so, for the safty of its civilians, Israel MUST attack specific places in Lebanon (not residential houses , however, places that 'belongs to the Hezbollah) and wipe out all their rockets

anyone disagree to this action?

I completely understand you (not that I agree with you), but my son you are sooo brainwashed...

whom?
me?

nahaaa :)

david you are not brainwashed. people are not very educated here.

you need to live/be in a israel in order to fully understand the situation, or both sides. you can't just pick one side by reading the news. you can form opinions.. but don't think you are right. the media doesn't portray an entire situation well enough.

<< you need to live/be in a israel in order to fully understand the situation, or both sides. >>

But if you live in Israel, how can you see and fully understand both sides of the story?

Re "the media"

Sorry, this term is far too broad to discuss this in meaningful ways.

Re "Everyone else is brainwashed".

There's a German joke. It goes something like this.

A guy drives on the highway A3 and he gets a message from the radio. The radio announces, "Attention, be careful on the A3, there's 1 car driving against the traffic. Repeat, on the A3 a car is driving in the wrong direction..."
The guy turns off the radio and says, "What are they talking about, 1 guy? It's not 1 guy, there's 100s!"

yeah.. i know it too Phlipp

but Israel is right (BTW, for you people who dont know, Israel is also a name)

try to live here Philipp or Tony or whomever!
no, really.. leave your ' good life ' and move here..
try living with bombing and terrorists.. lets see hows it gonna be for you guys..
without mentioning crime (of course every country has that), we have to live with terrorists too..

so, 'till you guys move, you dont know hows it like living here!

and Phlipp, see the main news on this page just once a day.. or twice a day.. (doesnt matter)
http://www.ynetnews.com/

and read about the Israeli living.

BTW,
if you want you can start a new poll here.. on this blog..(not forum)
just like this one:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/polls/displayresults/1,,91153-1003515-1,00.html

and let the readers ' decide '

Nice trick... Everytime you click on the poll, you vote yes... Not really a valid poll I think...

Anyway, I think this discussion should go on elsewhere. As /pd said above this becoming bigger than the 20% it should be...

trick?
the poll hasnt been made by the Israelies you know..

<<Anyway, I think this discussion should go on elsewhere>>
i guess your right..

and the Israelies are too stupid t o refresh the page :)

> so, 'till you guys move, you dont
> know hows it like living here!

We are all working on limited experience and knowledge... for example, you don't know what it's like to be a civilian at this time in Southern Lebanon. Ask yourself – would you have the same views on the current crisis that you have now? Would you still say "the Arabs are those who doesnt want the peace"? Or would you come to the conclusion that mostly everyone, no matter which country, only wants peace?