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Wikipedia on Israel/ Lebanon Crisis  (View post)

Mathias Schindler [PersonRank 10]

Wednesday, July 19, 2006
13 years ago5,947 views

I suggest looking at the arabic language version of that article, too. You may use google to translate the content. The result is babelfishy but you get the gist of it.

Tadeusz Szewczyk [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

What goes on down there is very sad for our civilization. What is even more depressing and makes you think this planet would be a bestter place without us are internet discussions about Israel vs Palestine or Israel vs the Arab world.

Like many other binary oppositions the situation in the middle east tends to awaken disgruntled lunatics on the net who support either of both sides. Most of them are rightist nationalists but even self proclaimed leftist either support one of the other.

The most dangerous people for those in power on both sides are the peace activists who demonstrate together for peace. Therefore Palestinians and Isreali demonstrators protesting together are most fiercely fought by the security forces and get very little coverage by the corporate media.

Elias KAI [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Talking about Corporate media, well I wish they count how many kids were killed and how many soldiers were hit ? After that we can be witness for our next civilization history.
It is too sad to watch that the international leaders are sitting and watching and no one is doing peace. And why should those international leaders do Peace in that particular region ? will it be on their future plans interest ?
Lebanon is the best complex model for those international Leaders to apply their theoretical eco political models.
Poor are the kids and the civilian families who are dying there in both sides.

mak [PersonRank 5]

13 years ago #

I'm form Lebanon and living there, and I can hear the roaring F-16s and the very load bombing sounds...
We found ourselves suddenly in the midst of a very severe "punishment" that Israel is doing to "help the Lebanese gov"!!!
Violence is becoming the "civilized" and best way to keep "democracy"!!

Check this site:
[Contains graphic images. -Ed.]
fromisraeltolebanon.info/

Mathias Schindler [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

mak:
thanks for the URL. It is impressive that it took this author less than 100 characters to invoke Godwin's law (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%2 ...)

(I hope the crisis will resolve as soon as possible and I feel worried about any kind of loss of human live)

Roger Browne [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Don't forget WikiNews as a source of community-edited information on current events:
wikinews.org/

It sometimes takes a day or two for the community to sort out everything that's going on behind a story, but it's often worth the wait.

Tadeusz Szewczyk [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

What is especially frustrating about bombing Lebanon that the country just recovered some years ago from the former war and was a thriving place in the middle east, very tolerant compared to the rest of the region, especially US supported dictatorships like Saudi Arabia. Btw. Do not forget that Lebanon is half Christian.

K [PersonRank 2]

13 years ago #

"Lebanese officials have pleaded with the United States to pressure Israel for an immediate cease-fire, but U.S. officials said conditions are not yet ripe for such a move, and they expect Israeli military operations to continue for another week or even longer." (CNN.COM)

This is sad and frustrating knowing that the UN and everyone else are allowing these airstrikes which are killing hundreds of innocent people. This is proposturious! How can people sit and watch this knowing that both sides are getting bombed and killed and nothing is being done? When are the conditions ripe enough? When more innocent people die!

Mr V [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

I disagree strongly with the crimes that both are perpertrating, its murder on both sides. Hezbollah willingly admit that they target Israeli population centers. Israel is killing anything that moves in southern lebanon without regard to whether they may be killing civilians.
I want to understand the reasons for actions on both sides. I can understand (but don't agree with) why Israel is acting so harshly. After hundreds of years of persecution and a holocaust, they have a country in which they can live without fear of pogroms and the like. But much of the arab world would like to see Israel destroyed. After so many wars with its neighbours, I am not surprised at its reaction here. Especially after decisive force has saved it in the past, like in the six day war.
But why have they been meddling in Lebanese affairs for so long? Why do they have so many Lebanese in jail? What did these Lebanese do? How many are in prison?
Can anybody tell me more about the prisoners?

Roy Shani [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

An Israeli left wing journalist (Yaron London)written today a short commentary in one of the Israeli newspapers which i think every one who judges the Israeli- Lebanese situation from a safe distance should read so i translated it:
"Two days before the first Lebanese citizen was killed from the bombardment of the IDF, 42 Sunnis were slaughtered in Baghdad by Shi'ite militia forces. The murderers built road blocks and sorted the civilians according to their religion: Shi'ite were allowed to pass, Sunnis were shot on the spot. Of the ones who were slaughtered, no one carried weapons. Following the massacre the Sunnis repaid the Shi'ite by killing a few of them in a mosque. The Arab press did not protest. The Arab cities plazas did not fill with crowds of protesters and in the western cities no signs with the words "Stop the killings" were raised. The Arab world minimized the dealings with those who were killed, exactly like he did with the 15,000 Iraqi civilians who were murdered since the beginning of 2005. The anger about mass massacres was pointed upon the U.S.
The act of killing Arabs by Arabs has become so obvious, that the Arab and worldwide press does not contribute more then a few words to it. Just 2 days ago 20 Iraqi civilians were murdered, and that item of news was squeezed to the last pages of the biggest newspapers in the world and wasn’t covered at all by the world's news networks. Their reporters do not come to Baghdad, also because its dangerous, but mainly because most of their efforts are invested on covering the destruction in Lebanon.
The killing by mistake of Lebanese civilians during the course of a war, which started by premeditated violence against Israel, is a sensational story. Destruction of infrastructure is wounding the Europeans hearts. Two thirds of the British citizens, according to a survey which conducted two days ago, are thinking that the response of Israel is "un-proportional". Of course that the British did not conduct a survey which asked if the firing of 2,000 rockets on the Israeli population and the exile of thousands of Israeli citizens from their homes is judged proportional by the minds of the British. The position of the ones who conduct the survey is reflected by their questions.
In past years, before Israelis became accustomed to the difference in which Europe is judging Israel and the ones who wants the hurt her, we had a tendency to resent them but we were explained that we actually need to be flattered by it: the ones who live in the "enlightened" side of the world thinks that Israel is one of their own, and so they expect us to act by their own values. "The others" are not expected to behave properly and therefore are not branded. Israelis , we are often explained, are criticized even more then the other "civilized" nations because we are Jewish and Jewish people are supposed to know and remember what is oppression and the killing of innocents.
One could take pleasure by those explanations if not for the forgiveness of those nations for their own. The Russians, for example, who desolated to the ground the city of Groznyy in their efforts to exterminate the Chechen rebellion, or the Americans who wrapped Afghanistan with a carpet of bombs, or Nato forces which devastated Yugoslavia after three months of constant shelling.
What derives the discriminatory attitude towards Israel by Europe? I suspect that one reason is a 5,000 years old reason (anti-Semitism) but it is surely not the main reason. The main reason comes from the romantic attitude of the Europeans to the poor man's rebellion. It’s a complex story which involves exalted feelings and guilt of the European Great Nations towards the nations who were enslaved by them for hundred of years. In my point of view, these feelings are concealed in one of the expressions which is interwoven most frequently by their reporters in their reports: "The Israeli war machine". Its an image of an automat, a killer machine, with no consciousness, a monster who crushes poor and defenseless human beings. Its an image which express the superiority of the technology of the western people, which is abused to trample the exploited.
"they don’t have a fighting chance" says to himself the average European, and by that he means that a just war needs to be fought bare handed. That it doesn’t really matter who attacked who and why. The weak side is always the right side and needs to be defended against the strong side. Of course that this logic is preserved as long as it's not their war…"

Art-One [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

Roy thank you for the translation of the very interesting piece. Although I'm not an expert in war thinking, the piece is a good try to explain the European attitude.

The article makes some important mistakes by which it loses much of it value. But if you can't make faults, discussion is useless, so the piece stays very important for the discussion itselves.

* First of all Arab kills the Arabs in Iraq.
-> I think that Sadam was a Sunni?
-> European news that I see write about it. The only thing is, the more press is present, the more there will be written about it. The longer a conflict lasts the less there will be written about it. Let's say that the Israel-Lebanon war lasts for several years, it won't be frontpage news every day also.

* The response of Israel is "un-proportional".
-> I think the number of deads are "un-proportional". Every dead person is a dead person too much. But how many Israeli are killed for how many Lebanees?

* The "enlighted" part of the world.
-> He's got it right here I think. Is this wrong?

* Russia
-> There's a lot of protest over here. Which news is he reading?

* Afghanistan & America
-> There is a lot of protest where as civilians are concerned.

* Yugoslavia
-> Ask the Dutch about their trauma not being able to protect civilians in an efficient way. It'll be clear this statement is complete nonsense.

* Discriminatory attitude towards Israel by Europe
-> So what is discriminatory?

* A 5,000 years old reason (anti-Semitism)
-> Not a lot of people I know are anti-Semitists. (None for as far as I know.)

* The main reason comes from the romantic attitude of the Europeans to the poor man's rebellion. It’s a complex story which involves exalted feelings and guilt of the European Great Nations towards the nations who were enslaved by them for hundred of years.
-> There may be some kind of romantic attitude to the poor man's rebellion. But than it is because we, or better our ancestors, fought our freedom that way.
-> His explanation is complete nonsense.

* His conclusion
-> We think that war should not happen. A solution should be build on mutual talks and on mutual understanding. That sure is not easy but it's the only way and it needs great statesmanship.

R [PersonRank 1]

13 years ago #

Roy Shani's articles was definitely interesting, so were 'Art-one's comments.

I am very angered that the US are still waiting until the situation is ripe enough to issue a ceasefire!! Are they waiting until the whole of Lebanon & Israel is wiped out
And it is completely unfair of the US to ask only Hezbollah to disarm as Israel did start the bombings. Who is to certify that even after Hezbollah disarms that Israel won't invade Lebanon. I have read in some websites that this is infact the plan of Israel and the US inorder to secure the Middle East under their control, to what extent may these coments be true??

There are also reports, i saw on CNN, of Israeli missiles discharging chemicals(phospherous) on impact causing severe burns to all exposed to it, why haven't the UN done an investigation on this matter and try to stop this????

I believe a ceasefire should be first put forward and then both parties must be disarmed.
Is it not enough that human life should perish due to natural disasters and diseases that man should kill themselves!!!

Juan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

> Are they waiting until the whole of Lebanon & Israel is wiped out

Of course not, US is helping to wipe out Lebanon ONLY and sending planes full of fresh bombs for that, read the news! Blair complained they make scale in Scotland.

There will be no peace in the world with THIS US and Israel.

Juan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

>why haven't the UN done an investigation on this matter and try to stop this????

Because of US vetoes to UN security council´s resolutions!!!!! Can´t you read the news or the Un websites? It´s not that difficult!!

Juan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

for the ignorant americans, ***at least*** read the BBC or Guardian instead of Bush´s CNN

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_eas ...
guardian.co.uk

Splasho [PersonRank 10]

13 years ago #

We can read the news ourselves without sanctimony.

Juan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

then you do not underdstand or you reproduce them biased which in both cases is worse than ignorance

Juan [PersonRank 0]

13 years ago #

a good one from CNN:

Israeli military expresses regret for bombing a car carrying Lebanese soldiers today

the genocide continues!! Qana is not enough killing for Israeli coward army

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