Google Blogoscoped

Forum

Knol is here  (View post)

hebbet [PersonRank 10]

Wednesday, July 23, 2008
11 years ago12,020 views

knol.google.com/k

Thx to Stefan Keuchel, German PR

TOMHTML [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Great news Pascal!!!

hebbet [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogsp ...

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Interesting explanation from the Blogger Buzz blog:

<< Blogs are great for quickly and easily getting your latest writing out to your readers, while knols are better for when you want to write an authoritative article on a single topic. The tone is more formal, and, while it's easy to update the content and keep it fresh, knols aren't designed for continuously posting new content or threading. Know how to fix a leaky toilet, but don't want to write a blog about fixing up your house? In that case, Knol is for you. >>

buzz.blogger.com/2008/07/intro ...

Also, some interesting phrasing on the Knol home page:

knol.google.com/k

>> Knol: a unit of knowledge
>> Plain old bag o' knols
>> Who needs a search engine? Ctrl+F

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

OMG!!! it's soo cool

Luka [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Interesting features :

* Similarity calculator from other web sites
* Evaluation, comments
* Adsense integration (when available)
* Name verification

Jon H [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

Awesome, whats with the search button on the home page. Refresh and watch it, it seems like it is loading something but it isn't implemented yet or something.

Pixelisation [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

I love the "Who needs a search engine? Ctrl+F" beside the "Plain old bag o' knols".

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

> * Adsense integration (when available)

I was able to verify my AdSense account without any issues. That's a nice feature for them to have added.

> * Name verification

You can currently only verify your name via phone / credit card if you're in the US though.

Pixelisation [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

Do you have any idea about the (future) possibility to share revenues from a collaboratively-edited Knol?

Pixelisation [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

worth-reading: wired.com/software/coolapps/ne ...

Above 11 comments were made in the forum before this was blogged,

bart [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

why are they changing their mission from "organizing the world's information" to "creating the world's information"? More eyeballs stay on google site – more advertisements to show? duh! so much for changing the world. :(

zlurg [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

"helping you sharing information to the world". that's pretty good and big. everybody isn't a geek with a personal website or the ability to wikify their knowledge. let people share their knowkedge under CC license, get credit for that, and the world will get better. google doesn't create anything in the process.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

(Edit: Added a screenshot of the editor. Edit 2: fixed grammar and spelling errors.)

Lars [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

It is good. But how is it with "knolling" in other than English languages? Or Knol is English only project?

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

While posting a comment looked for ages for a "Submit" button as the only one thee was "Submit as Anonymous" finally decided to click that link and my name shows up by my comment. Lol! They need to fix that.

I love the comment system, the display picture to the right is cool and the reply system seems Digg-Like with the drop-down arrow.

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Also, i can verify my Google Cal with my phone n Ireland, but Knol checks the Telephone Directory also, and is only available in the USA, which means an awkward roll out, probably not reaching most countries.

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Also (sorry for repeat posting) The loading spinner is beautiful


knol.google.com/k/knol/_/rsrc/ ...

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

> While posting a comment looked for ages for a "Submit"
> button as the only one thee was "Submit as Anonymous"
> finally decided to click that link and my name shows up by
> my comment.

Somewhat similar, but if your profile name in the profile editor – linked from Knol, though it's the general profile editor apparently – shows e.g. "John" as "Display name" and you did not check "Show full name publicly so people can find you" it will still show "John Doe" to others on Knol.

drtimofey [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

I remember when Wikipedia tried to overthrow Google by creating its own search engine... that was silly. Google creating a new Wikipedia – now that's serious!

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Hey, they just changed the login page so that it now features this graphic:


www.google.com/accounts/knol/k ...



www.google.com/accounts/Servic ...

Ionut Alex. Chitu [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

You can replace the name and the title from the URL with -:

knol.google.com/k/-/-/ID/NUM

E.g.: knol.google.com/k/-/-/si57lahl ...

TOMHTML [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

I thought there were hundreds and hundreds of people writing "secretly" articles for Knol. Well, there are not so many articles, and mainly health articles.

Miouv [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

They should enable Google Analytics for Knol quickly. This would be a great feature that may convince many experts to try this product.

Ionut Alex. Chitu [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Links are not nofollowed. This is surprising.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Regarding font sizes... editing the HTML view of an article lets you create a <div> wrapper inside their main div, which can then include a font style definition... like Verdana set to 110%. This allows more fine-tuned settings than their font format dialog such as "large". You need to remove an awful lot of "font" tags spread throughout the HTML though, at least that was the case here as I had previously set the font to Verdana using Google's menu.

Here's an article I started with an adjusted font size:

knol.google.com/k/philipp-lens ...

On a side-note, the Knol search engine does not immediately find your own new content. Might make sense for them to at least show one's own Knols faster, as an alternative to the My Knols link (a link which itself also shows a loading icon before it appears... odd).

Also, I've trouble using the Firefox spellchecker with their editing field. Mostly the red underlines don't appear, though as a workaround I could move the text into another comment field on another site temporarily.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Interesting how many duplicate URLs Google allows you to choose.
This is the URL I'm clicking on, which will later add a "#" in the address bar too (line break added):

knol.google.com/k/philipp-lenssen/search-engine-
optimization/5cuavxy8t4mh/7

You can remove the author and title, similar to what Ionut wrote above:
knol.google.com/k///5cuavxy8t4mh/7

Or you could just remove the author name but leave the title:
knol.google.com/k//search-engine-optimization/5cuavxy8t4mh/7

Or you can remove the ID but use just the name and title, with or without trailing slash:
knol.google.com/k/philipp-lenssen/search-engine-optimization

You could also replace above dashes with %20 for blanks. Using just one word from the title of your document works too ...
knol.google.com/k/philipp-lenssen/search

... or using just first name*:
knol.google.com/k/philipp/search

Of course as this seems to be more like a flexible search than a permalink, it may also be that as soon as that search would yield several hits (e.g. if there's an article titled "Search Engines" by someone sharing my first name) that it would stop working, or perhaps start leading to the wrong article, so it's probably not the safest way to link...

If you wanted to add confusion, you can also replace the name with something else, like "hello-world", or someone else's name – This will cause a redirect to the actual article of the ID, exposing the actual name ....
knol.google.com/k/matt-cutts/search-engine-
optimization/5cuavxy8t4mh/7

... and you can also leave out the title or change it:
knol.google.com/k/hello/world/5cuavxy8t4mh/7

*By now, I'm getting the error message "knol pageview limit exceeded ... Error Code: PageviewLimitExceeded", but I'm continuing with Browserpool.de.

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

The url system is to awkward compared to wikipedia.org/wiki/*

Ionut Alex. Chitu [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Knol has been built using Jot(Spot).

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

I guessed as it was practically identical in editor mode to Sites

My knol bio: knol.google.com/k/derry-quinn/ ...

Post yours! (separate thread?)

Henry [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

Why can't I publish a Knol? I just clicked "Publish". Does it take time to show up in the website?

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Henry, it may take some time before it appears in the Knol search. Do you see it in your My Knols section though?

Zlurg [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

Can't sign in this morning... It's completely messed up (I clicked on "write a knol" and the page is loading for several minutes ("Creating knol..." then refresh, then "Creating knol..." then...).

Is it because I'm out of the US?

Henry [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

I was finally able to publish four articles and signup for Adsense! You have to wait for Adsense verification.

So technically these things can handle photos. I wonder if you can embed videos and presentations as well.

Ionut Alex. Chitu [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

This is a strange meta tag: all links are nofollowed.

<meta name="robots" content="index,nofollow" />

Reto Meier [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Nice! I've been looking forward to Knol since it was announced. Like I thought at the time it's not so much a Wikipedia replacement as an alternative to Everything2.

I think I'll migrate some of my more popular E2 articles over to Knol and see what happens. It's a shame you can't verify your name outside of the US though.

My Knol profile:
knol.google.com/k/reto-meier/r ...

My first Knol (Flooded Member Detection):
knol.google.com/k/reto-meier/f ...

Ianf [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

"A knol is an authoritative article about a specific topic."

Yeah, right.... I am trying to understand how this might end up any better/ MORE authorative/ source of knowledge, than once-presumed-ninth- wonder-of-the-world, grassroots-written Wikipedia. Knowledge anchored in common empiric experience, as well as peer-reviewed theory, AS OPPOSED TO pure or mere opinion (nothing wrong with that, mind, only it's "knowledge" in name only.)

Presumably, because each such "knol" has to be signed by owner, it will promote seriousness of purpose, while filtering out garbage, not to mention nuisance edits and vandalism. But then the same mechanism of make-believe non-anonimity (in a docuverse where anyone instantly can create a virtual persona) introduces the element of EGO, a powerful incimament to wreck havoc, that's missing in Wikipedia.

It's early days yet, so let's wait until the service is discovered by the usual suspects of assorted Nazi- and other obsessed non-illuminatti (so perhaps, to prevent at least some of that, I ought to "claim," ie. write NOW! THIS INSTANT! the über-important titles of "Blessings of White Power;" "Adolf Hitler Superman;" and "New World Order Masonic-Judeo Conspiracy," all containing just the "Ipsum...." placebos for the moment, to prevent that lot from supplying it themselves.... Nah, I have a life outside of this).

Aonther example: suppose the prominently-featured knol of "Tooth Pain" by Noshir Mehta
knol.google.com/k/noshir-mehta ... (which I haven't read in detail, and, indeed, it took me a moment to realize that it's nominally about common "toothache") has been written by a kook, because even dentists can get the blues.... ;-))

Now what, still "an authoritative article about" ? And, if, other than comments, there are no built-in mechanisms to suppress/ remove kook science masquerading as human knowledge, then how is this the step in the right direction from the world of Wikimiki?

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

> to prevent at least some of that, I ought to "claim," ie.
> write NOW! THIS INSTANT! the über-important titles
> of "Blessings of White Power;" "Adolf Hitler Superman;" and
> "New World Order Masonic-Judeo Conspiracy," all containing
> just the "Ipsum...." placebos for the moment, to prevent
> that lot from supplying it themselves

That won't work, as far as I understand the Knol system, because no single person can "claim" a title for themselves. Rather, as opposed to Wikipedia, a lot of articles with the exact same title may be created within Knol. The URL scheme precedes titles with the author name so there won't be name space issues.

On the other hand, it may of course be that Google has some ranking fine-tuning algorithms which slightly prefer "firsts", and if you start articles early on you may also accumulate more ratings, reviews and so on over time. (Not to suggest you'd get good ratings for "Blessings of White Power"...)

> Now what, still "an authoritative article about" ? And, if,
> other than comments, there are no built-in mechanisms to
> suppress/ remove kook science masquerading as human
> knowledge, then how is this the step in the right direction
> from the world of Wikimiki?

I think the "authoritative article" motto at this time is just wishful thinking (not that that's bad, Wikipedia too started as a hopeful theory you might say), as there's nothing at Knol which strictly prevents complete fabrications... though there's some measures that may push more fact-ful articles, like ratings, reviews and so on.

I find it interesting to note that one argument in the Wikipedia vs Knol discussion that was brought up is that Wikipedia may contain false information whereas a more expert moderated system would be a solution to this.* If only it were that easy! But the truth is, in Wikipedia at least totally false information can be quickly corrected by the crowd... whereas in Knol, if the author is spreading a lie on something and set the article to "moderated" or "closed", there's no way for others to immediately correct this, though they may badly rate the article etc.

(In all that discussion, determining just was is a "lie" or "fact-ful" is of course a philosophical subject within itself...)

* E.g. here, a very interesting analysis of Knol by Danny Sullivan: searchengineland.com/080723-13 ... From the article:
"The collaborative advantage to Wikipedia is also its disadvantage. Since anyone can contribute, some introduce factual errors or overtly vandalize articles (...) It's one reason that Wikipedia is considering moderation."

TOMHTML [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

*
*
Can Google (or us) copy & past entire articles from Wikipedia to Knol?
*
*
Who or what can prevent me to do that?

Reto Meier [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

The comparison to Wikipedia is superficial. Where Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, Knols is a library.

Wikipedia aims to deliver a single, verifiable article on every topic worthy of inclusion. The editors agressively monior new articles to kill anything that's not 'encyclopedia worthy'.

That fine. That's great even, it's like a living version of Britanica. But it's not what Knols is about.

Knols is like the library. It's a collection of opinions, knowledge, and experiences as authored by people who feel their opnion is valuable. Just like a library, many topics will have several 'books' written by different authors – often contradictory.

How do you know which one to believe? Same as a library. Read a couple of different sources, find out about the authors and their likely biases.

Knols isn't trying to form a consensus opinion, it's a forum for people with knowledge to share it with interested parties. It's true community publishing.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

One addition Reto: Knol does have a search engine with some kind of ranking though, and if that ranking is dependent on things like user ratings, then there is some soft form of "best article" consensus which may influence which article you may end up reading.

By the way, your Flooded Member Detection Knol is impressive!

Reto Meier [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

:) Thanks Philipp – it was adapted from a 'node' I wrote for Everything2 a couple of years back. If you want to see who really got screwed by Knol check E2 out. It's exactly the same idea but adds a little more community and a more complex reputational model.

You're right about the ranking though – it might be nice to have Knol use a better reputation system to make the ranking process more transparent.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

> Can Google (or us) copy & past entire articles from
> Wikipedia to Knol?
> *
> *
> Who or what can prevent me to do that?

As for the legal side to this, I forwarded the question to Mathias Schindler of the German Wikimedia association. He was in a hurry with little internet right now but says (my translation):

"Short answer. They [Google] allow three licenses, all of which are incompatible with the [Wikipedia] GFDL [GNU Free Documentation License] – at least at the moment and considering the additional Google clause. You may not copy from Wikipedia to knol. At this time, you may also not copy from knol to Wikipedia. However, Google is granted enough rights from authors to release the texts under a GFDL license."

Ianf [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Reto, the reputation system would be even better, if it depended not solely on explicit ratings and linking-to, but also on views from unique IP#s, which Google posseses anyway.

Still, thanks for the library metaphor... it certainly is more appropriate than "A Better Mousemedia" (I was distracted by the promise of all that KNOLedge). And I just realized what it's more like – just as "Seinfeld" was a sitcom "about nothing," KNOL is a website about e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g. Ergo it *IS* more like about.com/ than wikipedia.org/

Reto Meier [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

[put at-character here]Ianf: Check out everything2.com/ for an even closer match :)

Joshua Epstein [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

I wrote and published a knol this morning on Superman. I figured it would take a while before it became searchable, but now its disappeared from "My Knols", but still shows up from my personal knol. What the heck is up?

Freiddie [PersonRank 7]

11 years ago #

[moved]

It looks like Knol Search leaves a lot to be desired. I searched "optimization" and nothing came up, despite an article whose title containing that word (you'd think Google was a pro at searching!). I was actually trying to find the article presented in the image shown in this blogoscoped post. (Anyway, found it, by using regular Google Search)

So I guess Knol needs a more sensitive search engine.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Odd, I'm getting the result for "optimization" but *only* when I'm logged in (being the author of the article).

Mostafa ND [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

[moved from "Where is Knol icon?"]

Has anyone noticed that the Knol icon in the Google account page isn't uploaded yet.

Here is a screenshot:


img165.imageshack.us/img165/83 ...



Here is the image link:


www.google.com/accounts/knol20 ...

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

I noticed this yesterday. It's odd that they've changed the URL if they've not got the icon as they usually just use the default labs icon if they don't have one yet. Maybe someone just forgot to copy the file across...

TOMHTML [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Thank you very much Philipp.

[put at-character here]Tony : yesterday, even after beeing logged to knol, this service wasn't in the list.

Tony Ruscoe [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Well it was in my list.

David Hetfield [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

I think they haven't decided yet which logo should they use..

Either this one:


knol.google.com/k/knol/_/rsrc/ ...



Or just the Knol's " K "

Roger Browne [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

It seems there's an integrated plagiarism detector. I found this "Similar Centent" message on the "Tooth Pain" knol:
knol.google.com/k/noshir-mehta ...


img370.imageshack.us/img370/61 ...

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Plagiarism, or perhaps re-use, either if the source was CC licensed and the license is shown in the re-use, or if you're owning the content (e.g. if I would re-post a Blogoscoped article in Knol).

M Smith, Google Knol Tracker [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

I had setup a Google Knol Tracker, ontheknol.com/ , to track what kind of articles show up on Google Knol’s frontpage and provide Knol RSS Featured Feeds and archival searching.

So far it’s very heavily health related and with articles that are a lot more eZineArticles like rather than Wikipedia like. I think Knol will provide a lot more competition to the article directories than it will Wikipedia or other similar sites.

Luka [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

For the 0% thing in adsense, this 0% is the part of the HOST service : this mean that 100% of the revenue are for the content redactor, and nothing for Google...

More here : www.google.com/adsense/account ...

Keith Chan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Google promotes Knol in Google Scholar:


lh3.ggpht.com/album.keith/SI2G ...



It's rather smart.

hebbet [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

[moved]

I don't know if you wrote about that in one of your articles about knol:
I wrote an article about the Startup wuala (wua.la) from Zurich, Switzerland. When you search for wuala on knol, you will not find my article, knol says that there is no article about wuala :(.

knol.google.com/k/pascal-herbe ...

Keith Chan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

The Knol icon in Google Account page is now live!

[Up] blogoscoped.com/forum/136354.h ...

James Xuan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

cool icon!

This thread is locked as it's old... but you can create a new thread in the forum. 

Forum home

Advertisement

 
Blog  |  Forum     more >> Archive | Feed | Google's blogs | About
Advertisement

 

This site unofficially covers Google™ and more with some rights reserved. Join our forum!