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Income Levels Of All Italians Posted Online  (View post)

Destino26 [PersonRank 1]

Thursday, May 1, 2008
11 years ago3,894 views

This is a great country! AAHAHAH :P I'm italian... ok... I admit, it's a strange and confusing thing but it reflects tthe contraddictions afflicting our political scene nowdays.

Just to correct: "Vincenzo Visco" not "incenzo" in the post.

Simone

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

(thanks, I corrected the spelling error!)

Marco [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

As Italian I can say it's a shame they removed the info from the web site so fast. I'm hoping in p2p channels.. ;)

Hong Xiaowan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Fighting corruption can not overpass the basic human rights.

Andy Wong [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Generally in democratic countries, politicians need to declare their tax and assets in order to gain basic credit of political career. This was decided as basic practice by citizens of the society.

To put tax info (not including data of a citizen's asset) online, it looks like pretty much a pioneering operation. Why didn't the government put such issue into public debate first leading to a referendum? Apparently those ministers were too careless in the decision making, and knew little about the nature of the internet. They might consider the Internet is the silver bullet for anything.

Making the info public does not mean putting them to the internet. For example, an existing practice is to setup a library front desk and let all parties query through dedicated terminals.

After all, paying tax is citizen duty, and at least in theory, there's nothing to hide about how much tax you contribute to the country, though asset info should always be strictly privacy issue.

Hong Xiaowan [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

[put at-character here]Andy Wong

According to the presumption of innocence, everybody have the basic human rights, you do not have right to public their info in order to get more evidence. Politician human being too. You can not treat them as wild animals.

And, not only politicians, all people need to declare their tax and assets to GOV, not to public.

Face the law, all fair.

If someone did tax evasion really this time, and list on agenziaentrate.gov.it, They are lucky, let your firends call police to supply more evidences, this will make all evidences to be unfair. And you need not submit tax anymore, it is your right.

Find good lawyers, and earn money for IT GOV.

I feel Strange, I found many people here like to discuss human rights, but did not understand human rights.

Gnome [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

Putting a citizen's name online without his permission is a violation in itself, let alone adding tax information to that. I don't understand how that can even be a matter of debate.

ema [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

Just to add some info. In Italy, by the law (and it was from a lot of years) you can go to a local tax office and ask for other people tax declaration.

They are public in our country. So the only new thing is that they are published online, not a big difference as long anyone can already take this data and publish everywere (some times newspaper did this in the past and none complain about).

The big difference this time is we had a change in the governement and the new one is not so devoted to transparency and, in general, law compliance. Once, our beloved little new leader said that not paying tax is admissible.

He knows (IMHO) very well the subject accounting how many "problems" had with the law...

I'm hoping in p2p to.

Destino26 [PersonRank 1]

11 years ago #

P2P has all the aswers but we will not see this (publishing) again in a near futur I think.

Jan [PersonRank 0]

11 years ago #

In some Scandinavian countries the Income of the people is even published in a yearbook.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Ema, I added an update quoting your info, thnx!

Ianf [PersonRank 10]

11 years ago #

Sez Gnome: "Putting a citizen's name online without his permission is a violation in itself, let alone adding tax information to that."

A violation of what, exactly, Harry Potter School of Worldly Morals? And how is it that one's name NOT be public to begin with?

Since it cannot be other than *public*, what justification could there be to treat it as secret anyway, verbotten to disclose in yet another distribution format, such as online? After all, various private and communal institutions already maintain largely computerized, yet partly open-access archives with far more invasive crumbs of personal information than mere names.

As for tax information – personally I may not like it either, but I could make an informed argument that free citizens of an advanced, lawful society should not fear disclosure of their quantifable monetary worth. It is only when we start treating it as premier, sole metric of judging one another, that we create an unjust society.

As for [legitimate concern of] openess equals opportunities for criminals to steal identities, and commit crimes in our names etc... I'd argue that the more secretive a given society, the easier it is for the state/ nominal chief guardian of that society/ to commit and/or cover up crimes against its own citizens. Nor have private data per se ever stopped criminals from acquiring sought-after info.

That said, after 20+ years online, I am extremely restrictive with what I *elect* to put there about myself besides some signatures and the extent of my opinions. You want to google me, I'm happy to be represented by the Iranian Aryan National Front or something ;-))

This thread is locked as it's old... but you can create a new thread in the forum. 

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