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"You Are Germany"  (View post)

shawn [PersonRank 0]

Wednesday, November 23, 2005
14 years ago

Wow, there are so many tangents that my mind is wandering off to. I think the relationship between the media and the general public is changing. As a result of the popularity of blogging, I think the public is becoming the media. I think that this is a good thing, in my opinion this is what will utlimately conquer the digital divide.

Michael Krelin [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Identifying oneself with any country is a fascist virtue.

Hermes [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Sounds like you imagine to be on the top of Mount Everest while you stand at 500 feet. ;)
In Germany there are just a few bloggers (less than 1%) and the picture hat not yet touched the classic medias horizon. So perhaps 0.4% of the People from Germany know about that.

Im living in germany and for myself I do not think of nazi propaganda. I think a lot about that we are in similar circumstances with 6.6 Mio unemployed and a goverment that talks about saving money to solve our biggest problem. And doing the same propaganda than the goverment in that time.
If they wold have known about the past of that slogan, they never would done so.
These are words that come to your mind when you think a lot about motivating people to work again without thinking of the way to establish that situation.
Its a little history repeating :(Perhaps we are not able to learn from before the second world war because we try our very best to never let it hapen again.

Adam [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

We even heard about this campaign here in America (via National Public Radio – NPR). Does sound well-intended but rather poorly executed. Almost akin to the whole "Just Say No" anti-drug campaigns in the U.S.

Schwarzerkater [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #


Not only the German Blogosphere is on fire, but also much of Germany's print media.

Perhaps the whole thing was pushed stratospheric by flickr:
flickr.com/groups/dubistdeutsc ...
Notice that one picture has over 3000 views?

Stern magazine reported.
shortnews.stern.de/shownews.cf ...

Associated Press reported.
dieneueepoche.com/articles/200 ...

N24 (TV Station) reported.
n24.de/wirtschaft/multimedia/i ...

All first tier news sources in Germany.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Spiegel too now:
spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft ...

Rob Liebwein [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Well, well, I personally think, this photo of Hitler with "You are Germany" was the the last straw. It is the total opposite what the german economy needs. Another problem is, that many campaign-makers were from the press themselves. The german press (as the campaign-makers) have tried to calm down this mass-critic, cp.

spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft ...
zeit.de/online/2005/48/denn_du ...
zuender.zeit.de/2005/40/du_bis ...

Editor Falk Lüke of the german press "DIE ZEIT" thinks, words of german bloggers are not allowed to be respectable. Only words by professional editors of the journalismus count.

blog.zeit.de/blogruf/?p=68

Nice idea by the prejudiced press to calm down the neutral bloggermedia. Whatta international damage. This campaign sucks. Prof. Eric Mueller of the UNC Law School thinks:

"...One of the 'Du bist Deutschand' faces is Albert Einstein’s. Yes – German Jew Albert Einstein. Sorry, Germany. You don’t get to use Albert Einstein for a German feel-good ad. You kicked Einstein out in the thirties. If he’d stuck around, he’d have been murdered. Or, if you want Einstein, Germany, I tell you what. I’ll make you a deal: you can be Einstein if you want, but then you also have to be Himmler or Goering or one of the others who wanted him dead..."
cp. isthatlegal.org/archives/2005/ ...

What will come next? "Arbeit macht frei" ("Work makes free") for Hartz-IV-employees?

inidia.de/arbeit_macht_frei.ht ...

Cut this du-bist-deutschland.de/ asap.

Rob

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Falk Lüke's analysis is flawed in its core assumption that bloggers didn't verify the image's source. I didn't even post the story here until Johnny Haeusler posted the verification! As for the image's copyright, he's raising a good point but it's not the most relevant in this discussion, and I wonder what a copyright lawyer would have to say to using a black-and-white image from 1933. I think it's a little more relevant that this was a story brought to the people days earlier than any mainstream publication "got" it, and that made some envious, I suppose.

Maybe there's more to come from this direction in future scoops... either you get it and work with bloggers, or you're building a wall around what you call journalism. Those journalists, I'm afraid, will be the ones who are building their own future cage.

Someone posing as Rob, but not Rob... [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I don't think you'll understand. We grow up being Hitler, Himmler, Göring ... all those bastards. We can't just say, sorry none of my business. We are the heirs of a black era.

We accept this role as best as we can. Our ancesters my grandparents and the childrens grandgrandparents take full response for what happened. They voted for Hitler and his regime, they turned their eyes down, cheered these bastards and even might have help in murdering thousands and thousands and thousands.

Yet they are my grandparents. I love them as much as any other granddaughter.

For Einstein ... well let's listen to one of his quotes.
Quote Einstein: "Die Stadt der Geburt hängt dem Leben als etwas ebenso Einzigartiges an wie die Herkunft von der leiblichen Mutter."

"The town in which you are born klings to your life as something unique as much as the origin of you biological mother."

He was US-Citizen by choice an despiced Germany in his advanced years but this doesn't change the fact, that he was brought up in Germany and for a very long time an accepted and honoured German citizen.

He left Germany long before the Nazis took over. I can fully understand, that he despised his native country.

It doesn't change the fact that it was the German Max Planck Instute that offered the environment for his studies. Yes, there are reasons for being proud ... and yet it doesn't really matter. None of us is either responsible or has done anything in the past to help Einstein get the Nobel Price.

All we can do is live up to the outstanding thinker as much as we are capable to.

I tell you another thing, I don't give damn on Nationality when it comes to my personal heroes. But this is just little me.

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

I don't take "full responsibility" for what happened even though I'm German (that would make me a murderer, after all, which I'm not), and would I know my grandparents did such things, I would indeed love them less. That being said, Germany like any other nation have the responsibility this won't happen again. Or rather, I should say we as human individuals.

It would be dangerous to believe this could only happen in Germany, even though there may be some attributes here that may make it less likely (neighboring countries, role in history, even such seemingly trivial things like what natural resources there are or which kind of weather people are exposed to). It would be equally dangerous to believe Germany, because of its past or its current "political correctness", would be free from similar movements in the future. We should make sure we fight those movements whereever we see them. And we should also not be blind to the history of other countries as well – the Japanese cruelties committed in WWII, the communist revolution of Mao Tse Tung which killed many, many people, the killing of Native Americans, and so on.

As for Einstein being used for the "You are Germany" campaign, I guess that's kind of *not very thoughtful* just like the rest of the campaign. If anything I identify with the web nation. I'm proud to do my share here, I'm proud to see a well-working Wikipedia, I'm proud to see a working blogosphere, and I'll be even more proud if the thing we build here some day more strongly reflects back on reality... and changes the world for better. Maybe that's just naive. Who knows?

And I do have a strong feeling that some of the nation borders will start dissolving as well because people all over the world mix more and more thanks to the 'net. I'm not just talking about online relationships, though that's part of it.

Justin Pfister [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Talk about Germany and Nazi's.. One reason I started following Google was because of the awesome power they were emerging on to the planet. Google is bringing a quantum step in information 'Control' to the masses. A few tweaks to a search engine like Google and it may be able to promote an undetectable terror that goes beyond what even Hitler was capable of. Racialy biased search algorythms that shift peoples perspectives over time. This is just one thing and it could happen. It might even be happening already.

If Google ever turns to the dark side, I'm sure Philipp will be there to detect it ;) I'm proud of all the great work he does following Google. If we had people like Philipp tracking Hitler, it may be possible that Germany's Dark Era could have been much shorter.

Rob Liebwein [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

I want to keep you informed, that the 1st posting here was by me, yes, this is correct:
[Up] blogoscoped.com/forum/13520.ht ...

The 2nd posting was not written by me:
[Up] blogoscoped.com/forum/13520.ht ...

Not nice to abuse my name...

Philipp Lenssen [PersonRank 10]

14 years ago #

Thanks for letting me know Rob, it's changed.

Falk Lüke [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Sorry Rob, thats neither what I wrote nor what I thought. Even my really harshly criticising guests at the blog misinterpretated it the way you do.

Falk Lüke [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Even ... have not .. – sorry.

Rob Liebwein [PersonRank 1]

14 years ago #

Philipp, thank you very much for the correction.

Justin, I don't know how such a problem can be avoided. I think, a registration-tool would be cool, but many posters will then avoid to register. I think, the best would be, if I will also start a blog.... omfg. ;-)

btw, some news for you:

"Nothing new under the sun"
isthatlegal.org/archives/2005/ ...

And welcome to the press in Australia! :-)))
"...The future is yours, don't despair, things might be in the dumps but this is the land of Beethoven, Einstein and all those giggling little garden gnomes..."
theage.com.au/news/business/yo ...

bye
Rob

Sixteen [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

I think it a great thing that this gumph isn't swallowed anymore by a great number of people. I love the fact that so many people have established parodies of this sort of campaign and wish that many more (especially those in my country) would do so....

Anduril [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Hey ich bin 18 und komme aus Deutschland, ich finde es immer wieder traurig das wir deutschen immer noch als Nazis angesehen werden. Klar ist es schrecklich und grausam was Hitler damals gemacht hat, aber heute ist es anders. brigens ist die Kampagne " Du bist Deutschland " dazu gedacht, die deutschen anzuregen, sich politisch und sozial z engagieren, um so etwas was vor 60 Jahren passiert ist, auf alle Zeiten zu verhindern...

anne [PersonRank 0]

14 years ago #

Ich denke, dass es gut ist, dass auf diesen Querverweis hingewiesen wird, allerdings halte ich es für falsch den Verfassern des Werbeslogans die gleichen Absichten zu unterstellen, wie Hitler sie propagierte. Dennoch wird deutlich, dass wir Deutschen uns ständig mit unserer Vergangenheit auseinandersetzen müssen und das ist auch auf der einen Seite gut so. Diese Werbemacher haben einfach ihre Hausaufgaben nicht gut gemacht, so etwas darf einfach nicht passieren. Schade dass man versucht das deutsche Wir-Gefühl zu stärken, in dem man ausgerechnet einen Slogan aus einer Zeit benutzt, in der der Wunsch der deutschen Bevölkerung nach einem Identitätsgefühl für falsche Ziele missbraucht wurde.

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