One think to keep in mind is that google is also doing kinda the same thing with google maps. If you try accessing it with a random user agent or the minefield user agent it simply won't work. (Which is a pain in the *** if you use minefield as your standard browser). Of course its not as bad as excluding a certain browser from your site consciously, but none the less the essential problem is in the use of browser recognizance through user agents instead of object existence. |
David, out of curiosity, what user-agent does Minefield use--how is it different from standard Firefox? |
Matt, I don't want to say you are doing exactly the same thing as Microsoft, but... there has been a lot of problems with Opera & Google's webpages... Google Notebook (R.I.P) wouldn't work properly, now Docs and GMail are sort of crippled... Thanks $DEITY, Google Reader works fine :-) |
I would hope that all web pages follow a standard that allows any browser that properly implements the standard to render the page.
Since neither is a reality I would have to unfortunately side with M$ and agree that it's much more efficient to do your development and testing on one target platform (i.e.: IE – hey, that's funny) and then cut your losses by supporting only that platform.
There's plenty of other, better, e-mail services out there so if you really can't or won't use IE then Hotmail is pretty minor casualty.
What would be nice to see in Chrome (and others) is being able to configure the user-agent string per URL (regex?). |
Back to Sep '08:
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2008-09-04-n21.html
-> "I can't access Hotmail (or another site) with Chrome..." |
I read an article about when MSN blocked Opera from correctly displaying their web page. In an effort to get back at MSN, Opera changed the language to fight back (I think to Swedish Chef?). Either way, It was amazing to hear, because Microsoft shouldn't make that happen, just so you use Internet Explorer. As it is, I've have to use either IE or Firefox in place of Google Chrome to view my Hotmail. Now, I don't have to! Thanks, I'll go update now! |
Brian, here's the Opera url--someone else pointed it out to me today: http://people.opera.com/howcome/2003/2/msn/
David Mulder, the right folks at Google are checking out the Minefield + Maps interaction. Thanks for mentioning it. |
I am partly with Schultzter. Using standards would be the solution.
That stupid (useragent=="...") check reaches back to the dawn of WWW. But I guess everybody likes it because no (javascript.version>=1.5) or (ecmascript.version>=262.3) was "invented" since. |
It should also be noted that the site https://partner.microsoft..com/ has produced a server error page in Chrome since day one and still does. I do all my browsing on the machine that I use to go to the Microsoft Partner page with Chrome, and then I have to fire up IE7 if I need to do something on that site.
Since IE7 is a clunky piece of junk, I usually have to reboot the PC before it will start in less than 2 minutes, and then reboot again once I'm done to free the resources again. |
Actually hotmail doesn't work in Firefox 3.1 beta 2 either. |
Eh, M$ could do more to support standards period. This is true and always has been. But because email is such a critical and security sensitive part of people's lives, I don't think MS is wrong to offer useful degraded experiences to new browsers either not built on mature technology or not built by proven teams.
Now, where they are wrong is in blocking Chrome completely or only allowing a buggy, error-filled mode. I mean, doesn't Hotmail have an 0ld-sk00L pure HTML mode like GMail does? If they don't, I think they should.
Of course, this is about as bad as when they were screwing with Opera a few years back. Or how many Google properties STILL screw up in Opera.
Just saying.
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